Talk: Eliminate the Renegade Threat

Do all the side missions really need their own pages? Can't we just roll them into the main Ground Zeroes page? --Fantomas (talk) 16:55, March 21, 2014 (UTC)

I wish it were that simple, but the problem is that the main Ground Zeroes page is dedicated to the Operation Trojan Horse mission, which is separate from the Side Ops missions not just in the sense that they're side ops and that is the main story, but also in the aftermath where (spoilers) the base ended up destroyed in a bombing run in the final Side Op (end spoilers). We could merge all four Side Op missions into one article, but we can't merge them into the Operation Trojan Horse article as they're intended to be different. Weedle McHairybug (talk) 17:21, March 21, 2014 (UTC)

Are they even important to the overall story? Are they even canon? The more I glance over these pages, the more I wonder why you thought they were relevant enough to constitute their own articles... The reason we made these main story articles is to avoid this kind of clutter... --Fantomas (talk) 17:30, March 21, 2014 (UTC)

Well, if they weren't canon, I think they probably would have made it clear, like... I don't know... having the missions take place in 1976 when both the game and the promotional materials make clear that Big Boss was in a coma during this time, not take place prior to the events of the main mission, or referencing events that shouldn't have occurred (such as how Deja Vu mentioned Shadow Moses as if it were in existence when it really wasn't). And since they were playable and there were some hints at them occurring (such as Miller's comment about Cipher's involvement in the base becoming a black site in one of the tapes), they were probably important enough. Weedle McHairybug (talk) 17:40, March 21, 2014 (UTC)

Maybe we can tag these "side op" events as ambiguously canon until we get a better understanding of them? I just played through them myself and they didn't all strike me as being connected to the main plot of Ground Zeroes. Some actually seemed more like the Snake Tales from MGS2:Substance. However, I've yet to form a solid opinion on it. --Bluerock (talk) 01:02, March 22, 2014 (UTC)

The Classified Intel Acquisition side op event was definitely canon, though, due to Skull Face's tape being acquired from that mission. Weedle McHairybug (talk) 01:03, March 22, 2014 (UTC)

Maybe, but then again, it's analogous to MSF having Paz's diary tapes, which the player actually obtains from defeating the (canonically nonsensical) Custom AI weapons in Peace Walker. --Bluerock (talk) 01:09, March 22, 2014 (UTC)

Yeah, although that's a bit different as collecting Paz's diary tapes was optional in those missions while the Skull Face tape is actually required for completing this mission. Weedle McHairybug (talk) 01:17, March 22, 2014 (UTC)

As an additional point, it doesn't necessarily mean that the events of the mission are canon. And even if they were, that doesn't mean it requires it's own page in a series of pages which is reserved for the major events in the Metal Gear Saga (like Operation Snake Eater, or the main Ground Zeroes mission itself). --Fantomas (talk) 01:18, March 22, 2014 (UTC)

Perhaps so, although considering how the entire point of that mission was to collect the tape (unlike the Paz diary tapes, which collecting them was completely optional in the missions they appeared in), I'm doubtful there'd be any point in making the mission non-canon considering how that tape was the focus of the mission. It would mean having to render Skull Face's entire backstory as non-canon as a result. Either way, they were events at least, and we can't just place them in the Operation Trojan Horse page as the missions were different. Maybe we could merge the four missions, although that's still going to cause a bit of a problem with the Key Events template as it is. Weedle McHairybug (talk) 01:26, March 22, 2014 (UTC)

Just because we render the events of the mission non-canon (which I'm not even saying we should do), doesn't mean we have to render Skull Face's back story non-canon. Think of it like this: the mission is "non-canon" and was only included, hypothetically speaking, to pad out Ground Zeroes content; the tape which explains Skull Face's back story is "canon" and included as a reward for completing the mission. But that's not my point. My point is: canon or not, the events of the mission aren't significant enough that it should be granted it's own page in this series of pages which focuses on the major events of each MGS game. --Fantomas (talk) 01:37, March 22, 2014 (UTC)

While I agree the events of the Side Ops are not significant in terms of the overall Metal Gear saga, I don't believe there is any real harm in having an individual page for each. They do clutter up the events template and should probably be removed from there, but I don't feel that they clutter the Wiki itself if they are well organized. --Bluerock (talk) 01:59, March 22, 2014 (UTC)

So after thinking about this a little bit more, and playing through the Side-Ops a few more times, I'm convinced that the events themselves are "canon," (as in, they were actual missions MSF embarked on) but them taking place at Camp Omega are not; each missions begins with the comment "A Psuedo-Historical Recreation" implying this isn't exactly how the events went down, and given how Ground Zeroes begins, with Snake and Miller discussing Camp Omega like they've only just found out about it, and how it ends, with Miller and Snake being hospitalized after the explosion and crash, it seems pretty definitive that these missions didn't actually happen at Camp Omega, ya'know? --Fantomas (talk) 15:47, March 24, 2014 (UTC)

We could create a new article that says "Unidentified black site (1974-1975" for that specific area. Weedle McHairybug (talk) 15:52, March 24, 2014 (UTC)

Question to admins

To avoid an edit war with Weedle, please let me ask you this question. Wasn't Miller referring to what XOF and Cipher were doing at the base during Ground Zeroes mission? The side ops are "pseudo-historical recreations", meaning they aren't canon. Just Snake Tales missions in an alternate universe. --DarahDanDoa (talk) 21:21, June 20, 2016 (UTC)