<div class="quote">186.62.14.174 wrote:
People still cares about MGS canon? <p>Kojima doesnt give a fuck about canon, just look at MGSV or any other game in the series. </p><p>The entire discussion about PO and Rising being canon is pointless, since September 1rst, Kojima has no power over metal gear canon, and thank god for that. </p><p>Konami never had trouble mentioning PO as part of the saga, hell, Metal Gear Rising JP website has a timeline which includes Rising on it. </p><p>And honestly, Rising feels like a sequel/proper continuation inside the MGS verse, I still dont see the point of MGSV </p> </div> <p>
</p><p>First of all, Kojima did not leave the company Sept. 1st like you are assuming. If I recall correctly he is staying with Konami until the end of the year. </p><p>Secondly, its far from pointless. Lots of people believe that those games are canon, when they have been confirmed by both Konami and Kojima not to be. </p><p>The MGR timeline is out of date. Konami's up to date official timeline can be found here. As you can see it only includes the canon titles. </p><p>While Rising may "feel" like a proper sequel to you (to most people it honestly doesn't), the fact of the matter is its a parallel story and a spinoff. </p>

<div class="quote">186.62.14.174 wrote:
Spin Off = non canon? what a load of bullshit. <p>Also, Kojima never called Rising non canon, never said it was an alternate universe and more importantly he called it a direct continuation. </p><p>Kojimatards only like to twist Kojima own words to suit their arguments, I doesnt matter anyway, like I said, Kojima has no power over MG canon anymore, his word and vision means jackshit right now. </p><p>Thank god the Metal Gear saga is free of that fucking hack. </p> </div> <p>Actually you are completely wrong.  </p><p>Kojima literally says that Rising is a "parallel story" a "spinoff" and "platinum's interpretation of the metal gear universe" in the following interview: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n6OGvhlKNzw </p><p>He has never called it a direct continuation. In another interview he also confirmed that it is not a part of the Metal Gear saga. </p><p>Kojimatards? You mean fans of Metal Gear? If you don't like MG and Kojima then get the fuck out. Go back to playing CoD or whatever stupid shit it is you do. </p>

<p>LOL KOJIMA is a hack and MGSV confirms it. </p><p>And actually is pretty sad when COD AW tells a more coherent story compared to the retconning clusterfuck that is MGSV plot. </p>

<p>I know I'll get a lot of bad feedback from this, but being this a discussion and hopefully a respectful one as should be, I have to say my part and spend my two cents. </p><p>I heard too much people saying that PO is non-canon just because Kojima didn't write it himself or because was not included in the Legacy Collection. What kind of evidence is that? It's like saying that Solidus is not a clone of Big Boss because he lost the left eye instead of the right one, or that Liquid is a clone of Miller as they both have blond hair. It makes no sense no matter you see it. In a discussion are used elements, not speculations or just random personal thoughs, because no matter how much we could want one thing to go in a precise way, it will not. So I'm going to bring something that has been said over and over, but apparently is still necessary. </p><p>Kojima himself said that the "core" of PO is canon (however he admitted that some informations given by the game contradicts the rest of the series, thus the "core" only he consider it canon). Also, it's present in the same timeline as the canon series (unlike Snake's Revenge, Ghost Babel, the two Acid and Mobile, with openly contradicts the events of the canon timeline, thus comes the "non-canon" definition; just think that GB sets in 2002 and ignores the events of MG2, or Acid and Acid 2 that contradict pretty much everything established about the LET project etc.), and its events are mentioned in MGS3 (although indirectly, in the ending timeline), MGS4, PW and TPP. Plus, Gene's ideology of "Army's Heaven" had a huge part in the inspiration of both the concepts of Outer Heaven and The Patriots. The fact that the events in PO are not referred to all the time like other titled tied-in (eg. MGS references MG2 all the time, MGS2 does the same with MGS, PW with MGS3 and GZ/TPP wth PW) does not mean the game itself is out of canon. </p>

<p>Why is it that in canon debates, some people always come down on insults? It's really silly honestly and frankly it's just highly disrespective. We are all fans of the Metal Gear series, we all have our own opinions, likes and dislikes about the series and it's surrounding games. Insulting each other because of having different views of canonicty is just plain stupid, respect each other's views on the subject and discuss it in a proper manner without having to resort to insults. </p>

<div class="quote">The 2nd travel of the Titanic wrote: <p>I heard too much people saying that PO is non-canon just because Kojima didn't write it himself or because was not included in the Legacy Collection. What kind of evidence is that? It's like saying that Solidus is not a clone of Big Boss because he lost the left eye instead of the right one, or that Liquid is a clone of Miller as they both have blond hair. It makes no sense no matter you see it. In a discussion are used elements, not speculations or just random personal thoughs, because no matter how much we could want one thing to go in a precise way, it will not. So I'm going to bring something that has been said over and over, but apparently is still necessary. </p><p><span style="font-style:italic;">Kojima himself said that the "core" of PO is canon (however he admitted that some informations given by the game contradicts the rest of the series, thus the "core" only he consider it canon). Also, it's present in the same timeline as the canon series (unlike Snake's Revenge, Ghost Babel, the two Acid and Mobile, with openly contradicts the events of the canon timeline, thus comes the "non-canon" definition; just think that GB sets in 2002 and ignores the events of MG2, or Acid and Acid 2 that contradict pretty much everything established about the LET project etc.), and its events are mentioned in MGS3 (although indirectly, in the ending timeline), MGS4, PW and TPP. Plus, Gene's ideology of "Army's Heaven" had a huge part in the inspiration of both the concepts of Outer Heaven and The Patriots. The fact that the events in PO are not referred to all the time like other titled tied-in (eg. MGS references MG2 all the time, MGS2 does the same with MGS, PW with MGS3 and GZ/TPP wth PW) does not mean the game itself is out of canon.</span> </p> </div> <p>There is actualy plenty of evidence that Portable Ops is not canon. Thankfully this information has been compiled and posted on the talk page, so I will just link it here and summarise, rather than repost it entirely. Konami released a timeline that contained only the Core8 games (which excludes MPO and Rising). Kojima also gave an interview where he said that only the Core8 games are a part of the "single Metal Gear saga" of games. This interview was given earlier this year and thus is the most up to date opinion on the topic. Therefore the old interview where he mentioned PoOps is old outdated information and is disregarded.  Also in the Ground Zeroes Deja Vu mission there are logos for all the games ever made in the series. Only the Core8 game logos can be erased and will be mentioned by Kaz. All others will be made fun of by Kaz, and he'll say stuff like "Metal Gear something something" and "I don't remember that one.". Lastly, the MGSV guidebook has a detailed timeline of all canon events written by Kojima and Konami. The timeline leaves out MGR and PoOps entirely, even  though there is an entire page dedicated to the early 1970s, there isn't even the slightest mention of MPO or the San Hieronymo Incident. There are hi-res image uploads of those pages found on the talk page.  </p><p>PoOps is only mentioned in games as a joke. As I said GZ references it by having its logo, but Kaz says that the game is non canon. Also its incredibly lame to say that Big Boss got his idea for Outer Heaven from someone else. I'm glad that the game has since been retconned out of canon and now we know that Big Boss came up with the idea for it himself, rather than stealing it lamely from someone else. </p><p>You're right when you say that personal opinions can't change whether or not PoOps is canon, thankfully both Kojima and Konami have agreed that the game is no longer considered part of the canon timeline which simplifies the situation greatly. </p>

<div class="quote">138.51.255.87 wrote:
<div class="quote">The 2nd travel of the Titanic wrote: <p>I heard too much people saying that PO is non-canon just because Kojima didn't write it himself or because was not included in the Legacy Collection. What kind of evidence is that? It's like saying that Solidus is not a clone of Big Boss because he lost the left eye instead of the right one, or that Liquid is a clone of Miller as they both have blond hair. It makes no sense no matter you see it. In a discussion are used elements, not speculations or just random personal thoughs, because no matter how much we could want one thing to go in a precise way, it will not. So I'm going to bring something that has been said over and over, but apparently is still necessary. </p><p><span style="font-style:italic;">Kojima himself said that the "core" of PO is canon (however he admitted that some informations given by the game contradicts the rest of the series, thus the "core" only he consider it canon). Also, it's present in the same timeline as the canon series (unlike Snake's Revenge, Ghost Babel, the two Acid and Mobile, with openly contradicts the events of the canon timeline, thus comes the "non-canon" definition; just think that GB sets in 2002 and ignores the events of MG2, or Acid and Acid 2 that contradict pretty much everything established about the LET project etc.), and its events are mentioned in MGS3 (although indirectly, in the ending timeline), MGS4, PW and TPP. Plus, Gene's ideology of "Army's Heaven" had a huge part in the inspiration of both the concepts of Outer Heaven and The Patriots. The fact that the events in PO are not referred to all the time like other titled tied-in (eg. MGS references MG2 all the time, MGS2 does the same with MGS, PW with MGS3 and GZ/TPP wth PW) does not mean the game itself is out of canon.</span> </p> </div>There is actualy plenty of evidence that Portable Ops is not canon. Thankfully this information has been compiled and posted on the talk page, so I will just link it here and summarise, rather than repost it entirely. Konami released a timeline that contained only the Core8 games (which excludes MPO and Rising). Kojima also gave an interview where he said that only the Core8 games are a part of the "single Metal Gear saga" of games. This interview was given earlier this year and thus is the most up to date opinion on the topic. Therefore the old interview where he mentioned PoOps is old outdated information and is disregarded.  Also in the Ground Zeroes Deja Vu mission there are logos for all the games ever made in the series. Only the Core8 game logos can be erased and will be mentioned by Kaz. All others will be made fun of by Kaz, and he'll say stuff like "Metal Gear something something" and "I don't remember that one.". Lastly, the MGSV guidebook has a detailed timeline of all canon events written by Kojima and Konami. The timeline leaves out MGR and PoOps entirely, even  though there is an entire page dedicated to the early 1970s, there isn't even the slightest mention of MPO or the San Hieronymo Incident. There are hi-res image uploads of those pages found on the talk page.  <p>PoOps is only mentioned in games as a joke. As I said GZ references it by having its logo, but Kaz says that the game is non canon. Also its incredibly lame to say that Big Boss got his idea for Outer Heaven from someone else. I'm glad that the game has since been retconned out of canon and now we know that Big Boss came up with the idea for it himself, rather than stealing it lamely from someone else. </p><p>You're right when you say that personal opinions can't change whether or not PoOps is canon, thankfully both Kojima and Konami have agreed that the game is no longer considered part of the canon timeline which simplifies the situation greatly. </p> </div> <p>
I see your point, but as other users said, "canon" and "spin-off" are not the same thing, as a spin-off <i>can</i> fit in the timeline without problems and keeps its place as canon (as a minor title, but still); a true "non-canon" title instead is in open contradiction to the main series. Take for example <i>Ghost Babel</i> again: it poses an alternate sequel to <i>MG1</i>, completely ignoring the events of <i>MG2</i> as they never happened (and actually even "retcon" on its way half of <i>MG1</i>, but being opely contradictory to the first game we can say it "retcons" on its alternate timeline). <i>Mobile</i> doesn't contradict the main series, as is just a Solid imprisoned inside a VR-world, but is safe to say it's non-canon as its events don't match with the chronological sequels (<i>Mobile</i> is said to take place in the earliest days of Philatrophy, thus at some point in 2006). <i>Ac!d</i> and <i>Ac!d 2</i> too are considered non-canon as they both openly contradicts several points of the main series: the non-existent accelerated aging process of the LET subjects (mentioned already in MGS2, as Ocelot mentions that Solid is getting old really fast, while in Ac!d is an even younger look espite taking place in 2016, two years after mgs4, where he was aged already enough to feel and look over 90 while being 42), the world set, the total inexistence of The Patriots (even opering in shadow), the fact of Solid being cloned himself (Ac!d 2 came out after mgs3, where is stated Big Boss is sterile and could not have kids and in the optional calls with Para-Medic about cloning is said the hint of his clones not being able to be cloned themselves), even his backstory is different (no Outer Heaven, no Zanzibar Land, no Big Boss, no LET project, in fact in Ac!d Solid is not a clone at all lol). </p><p>This kind of contradictions make those games "non-canon", other than spin-off (which just means that are out of the main saga, the two things don't come always togheter). PO is yes out of the "core saga" and thus is a spin-off, but this doesn't necessarily mean its also out of canon. Its events are just not <i>that</i> important (at least indirectly; is important for example because shows how Zero managed to retrieve the Philosopher's Legacy and use it to form the Patriots, or because shows that by 1971 FOXHOUND was already turned into an official Government unit and Big Boss was asked to led it, same unit that will lead again the 90s, Outer Heaven, bla bla bla). </p><p>
Anyway, as Fantomas already told you in other discussions, you're a bit overacting. Basically this prevent any discussion (which should have an end at some point, it's almost ten years that this topic keeps spreading, but should end for an agreement, not a shut door). </p>

Kojima has no power over Metal Gear canon anymore.

<div class="quote">138.51.255.87 wrote: <p>PoOps is only mentioned in games as a joke. As I said GZ references it by having its logo, but Kaz says that the game is non canon. Also its incredibly lame to say that Big Boss got his idea for Outer Heaven from someone else. I'm glad that the game has since been retconned out of canon and now we know that Big Boss came up with the idea for it himself, rather than stealing it lamely from someone else. </p> </div> <p>Gene was modeled after The Boss. The whole idea for Outer Heaven stemmed from The Boss's will. Even Big Boss's idea to use Metal Gear wasn't his own. Granin developed the concept of a bipedal tank, while Sokolov developed Shagohod and Metal Gear RAXA.
</p>

<p>Funny enough Portable Ops is the only decent Big Boss related story after MGS3, only Kojifanboys zealots would deny that, PW-GZ-TPP is nothing than a BIG waste of time, pointless filler afeter pointless filler. </p><p>Im glad we didnt plays as Big Boss in TPP, it was refreshing playing a game without Big Boss whinning and crying over The Boss as usual, you know his gimmick to fool people into thinking he is a <i>deep</i> character. </p>