kojima sayd in an interview that portable ops is canon, but details are not. what the details?
kojima sayd in an interview that portable ops is canon, but details are not. what the details?
after i read the clearer translation, i think we should change this part at the mpo site: In an interview on Twitch in March 2014, Kojima stated that while the core story of Portable Ops is canon, details that doesn't match with the other games in the series are not part of the main Metal Gear saga due to the fact that he didn't write the game's story
here the clearer translation
Is MPO part of the main storyline?
Hideo Kojima:
Well, this is pretty difficult, umm…
Umm, what was it…
If we’re talking small details, umm, there’s quite a bit where it deviates from the Metal Gear Saga.
So, umm, how do i put this, umm…
In terms of the overall storyline, umm, it’s part of the saga but in terms of the small details, it’s a little, it would appear to be a little off from the main story.
Rather than saying whether it’s main story or not, uhh….
It’s more like, within me things are expressed as a division between those “A Hideo Kojima Games” that I directed/wrote/designed, and those things where I was producer.
i have the clearer translation from here: http://solidkenny87.tumblr.com/post/97125545680/clearer-translation-of-kojimas-mpo-answer
That part's already noted, actually. And anyways, MPO is canon. It's been referenced in MGS4 and even in Peace Walker, not to mention Kojima himself already made very clear it was canon twice.
and what is it with the small details? are they also still canon? i dont think thats very clear what he sayd in this clearer translation.
If we’re talking small details, umm, there’s quite a bit where it deviates from the Metal Gear Saga.
So, umm, how do i put this, umm…
^ holy crap your post is full of shit.
Konami can't say a damn thing about what is canon, it's Kojima who dictates what is, it's his saga and his legacy. And anyway, canonity isn't really an issue here, it's rather which games are part of Kojima's saga, namely which are true 'A Hideo Kojima Games'. This includes MG, MG2, MGS, MGS2, MGS3, MGS4, MPW and MGSV. It doesn't matter jack shit if your boner for MPO wants it to be canon, it's not part of Kojima's legacy, as isn't Revengeance.
This has nothing to do with about can we enjoy the games as they are, it's about this one genius of a man and his vision that he made reality. And it's been clearly stated which games in the series are a part of his saga, his will, his MEME.
"Konami decides what's canon" pfffft
91.156.189.68 wrote: ^ holy crap your post is full of shit.
Konami can't say a damn thing about what is canon, it's Kojima who dictates what is, it's his saga and his legacy. And anyway, canonity isn't really an issue here, it's rather which games are part of Kojima's saga, namely which are true 'A Hideo Kojima Games'. This includes MG, MG2, MGS, MGS2, MGS3, MGS4, MPW and MGSV. It doesn't matter jack shit if your boner for MPO wants it to be canon, it's not part of Kojima's legacy, as isn't Revengeance.
This has nothing to do with about can we enjoy the games as they are, it's about this one genius of a man and his vision that he made reality. And it's been clearly stated which games in the series are a part of his saga, his will, his MEME.
"Konami decides what's canon" pfffft
People said the same thing about what George Lucas views as canon, and yet look what's going on. Disney's ignoring Lucas' ideas for the sequel trilogy.
Besides, Kojima doesn't even care about his own canon, as evidenced by the amount of retcons he's made in all the games to such an extent that they rendered even the MSX2 games barely even canon. Probably the worst of it was MGSV:TPP, where he had us playing as a double MGS2 style, ruining quite a bit of the chronology in the process, for no real reason other than simply because he childishly wanted a plot twist no one would see coming. Why should he bother caring about pushing his philosophy when his own philosophy basically changes on a dime?
91.156.189.68 wrote: ^ holy crap your post is full of shit.
Konami can't say a damn thing about what is canon, it's Kojima who dictates what is, it's his saga and his legacy. And anyway, canonity isn't really an issue here, it's rather which games are part of Kojima's saga, namely which are true 'A Hideo Kojima Games'. This includes MG, MG2, MGS, MGS2, MGS3, MGS4, MPW and MGSV. It doesn't matter jack shit if your boner for MPO wants it to be canon, it's not part of Kojima's legacy, as isn't Revengeance.
This has nothing to do with about can we enjoy the games as they are, it's about this one genius of a man and his vision that he made reality. And it's been clearly stated which games in the series are a part of his saga, his will, his MEME.
"Konami decides what's canon" pfffft
Besides, Kojima doesn't even care about his own canon, as evidenced by the amount of retcons he's made in all the games to such an extent that they rendered even the MSX2 games barely even canon. Probably the worst of it was MGSV:TPP, where he had us playing as a double MGS2 style, ruining quite a bit of the chronology in the process, for no real reason other than simply because he childishly wanted a plot twist no one would see coming. Why should he bother caring about pushing his philosophy when his own philosophy basically changes on a dime?
Wait, what part of the chronology do you mean? It seems pretty straightforward. Venom Snake was the "Big Boss" that was killed at the end of the first Metal Gear game (although the real Big Boss was indeed the one giving Snake commands through his codec) and the real Big Boss was fought and severely burned at the end of the second Metal Gear game.
As for retcons, that's pretty much a given to be honest. Kojima himself has admitted that he tends to retcon past events in the games if he thinks it makes the current story he's writing better (e.i. Big Boss' age in MGS3, Big Boss telling Solid Snake he's his father, Kaz Miller's backstory). He never really retcons it to the point that the chronologically later games become impossible.
Portable Ops as a whole is canon, the "details" he mentioned refers to stuff that later Metal Gear games may retcon, but there is no controversy about the game as a whole.
The Wikia Editor wrote:
91.156.189.68 wrote: ^ holy crap your post is full of shit.
Konami can't say a damn thing about what is canon, it's Kojima who dictates what is, it's his saga and his legacy. And anyway, canonity isn't really an issue here, it's rather which games are part of Kojima's saga, namely which are true 'A Hideo Kojima Games'. This includes MG, MG2, MGS, MGS2, MGS3, MGS4, MPW and MGSV. It doesn't matter jack shit if your boner for MPO wants it to be canon, it's not part of Kojima's legacy, as isn't Revengeance.
This has nothing to do with about can we enjoy the games as they are, it's about this one genius of a man and his vision that he made reality. And it's been clearly stated which games in the series are a part of his saga, his will, his MEME.
"Konami decides what's canon" pfffft
Besides, Kojima doesn't even care about his own canon, as evidenced by the amount of retcons he's made in all the games to such an extent that they rendered even the MSX2 games barely even canon. Probably the worst of it was MGSV:TPP, where he had us playing as a double MGS2 style, ruining quite a bit of the chronology in the process, for no real reason other than simply because he childishly wanted a plot twist no one would see coming. Why should he bother caring about pushing his philosophy when his own philosophy basically changes on a dime?
Wait, what part of the chronology do you mean? It seems pretty straightforward. Venom Snake was the "Big Boss" that was killed at the end of the first Metal Gear game (although the real Big Boss was indeed the one giving Snake commands through his codec) and the real Big Boss was fought and severely burned at the end of the second Metal Gear game.
As for retcons, that's pretty much a given to be honest. Kojima himself has admitted that he tends to retcon past events in the games if he thinks it makes the current story he's writing better (e.i. Big Boss' age in MGS3, Big Boss telling Solid Snake he's his father, Kaz Miller's backstory). He never really retcons it to the point that the chronologically later games become impossible.
Portable Ops as a whole is canon, the "details" he mentioned refers to stuff that later Metal Gear games may retcon, but there is no controversy about the game as a whole.
How about the fact that because of this, especially the bit about how EVA, Ocelot, and possibly even Big Boss knew all about Zero not actually being responsible for the events during the 1990s, they basically came across as huge liars to Snake, thus utterly ruining one of the more redeemable aspects of Metal Gear Solid 4 and actually made Snake even more of a tool than before? Or how about the fact that the whole thing with Venom Snake basically made the LET project and S3 Plans pointless? Not to mention made Big Boss exceedingly out of character as well.
Unfortunately for those diehard Portable Ops fans out there, the sad truth is that the game is now considered outside the main saga of games by Kojima, Konami and the fanbase in general. For a long time even this wiki was confused about what was included in the canonical saga, but thankfully with the release of The Phantom Pain, the situation has clarified to the point where the wiki admins have decided to group together only the Metal Gear Saga games apart from the spinoff games like Ghost Babel, Portable Ops and the Ac!d series, which are all part of a separate timeline canon. To clear up any remaining doubt, I have compiled a comprehensive list of evidence supporting this stance such that it can all be read in one place. Without further ado, here are the facts:
Exhibit A: The Metal Gear Timeline
Kojima recently released this picture showing the officially recognized timeline of games. Notice that it only includes the Core8 games.
http://i3.endoftheinter.net/i/n/26035f588b83cd7ea3bf78078e0c9c4f/Metal-Gear-Snake-Timeline.jpg
Exhibit B: New Kojima Interview
In a recent interview, Hideo Kojima spoke briefly about this topic and said the following: "I always say 'this will be my last Metal Gear,'" Kojima said, "but the games in the series that I've personally designed and produced -- Metal Gear on MSX, MG2, MGS1, 2, 3, 4, Peace Walker, and now MGSV -- are what constitute a single 'Metal Gear Saga.' With MGSV, I'm finally closing the loop on that saga."
Thats right Kojima confirms that the Core8 games are what constitute the single "Metal Gear Saga". This interview is the most recent interview where Kojima discusses the topic, so it obviously supersedes the old interview where he said that it was partially canon.
Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WMlZ-HQY4jQ
Exhibit C: Old Kojima Interview was mistranslated
One of the main reasons this myth has been so tough to kill is because of an old interview where Kojima supposedly says that Portable Ops is canon. Even if it were true, it would be moot now anyways since he has since gone on record saying the opposite (See exhibit B). However it actually turns out that this interpretation was in fact caused by an awkward translation.
It turns out that Kojima was really trying to emphasize that he views the major difference to be whether or not the game was "directed/written/designed" by him or simply "produced". He goes on to specify that the former classification are games that fall under the "A Hideo Kojima Game" banner, and that just happens to be the Core8!
Portable Ops does not in fact carry this distinction which is one of the earliest indicators that it was outside the main saga. Compare the box art for POOPS and PW:
PoOps Cover: http://i4.endoftheinter.net/i/n/75f3f9708e14d1d7dfb18b116a7eb0b2/75892_front.jpg
Peace Walker Cover: http://i2.endoftheinter.net/i/n/13b549ded0f79fff52422379e48452cc/7[1].jpg
Source: http://solidkenny87.tumblr.com/post/97125545680/clearer-translation-of-kojimas-mpo-answer
Exhibit D: Ground Zeroes Deja Vu mission
In Ground Zeroes there is an unlockable bonus mission called "Deja Vu". In this mission every logo from every Metal Gear game ever made was scattered around the map. Using a special gun you could try to erase certain logos. However, ONLYthe Core8 game logos were erasable. Kaz will say certain positive things when you erase a Core8 logo, such as "You can erase the image, but the memories will live on". However when you try to erase a non-canon game he will say things like "Metal Gear... Something Something" and "I don't remember that one." This is Kojima being a bit tongue in cheek about the status of the Core8 games.
Here is a pretty funny video showing this part of the game:https://youtu.be/_e4BrZepC1w?t=6673 (if the time url doesn't work the time is 1:51:13)
Exhibit E: MGSV Guide Book
The recently release MGSV guide book was personally approved by series creator Hideo Kojima who provided input for many of the books sections. In particular there is a section that discusses the history of the game series and has a detailed timeline. The timeline makes no mention of Portable Ops other than a reference under 1970 about Ocelot securing the other half of the Legacy. However no mention of the San Hieronymo Incident or any other details from PoOps are present.
Additionally there is a page detailing the devents of the early 1970s, when PoOps is said to have taken place. However, the article makes absolutely no reference to PoOps at all, confirming that it is not included in the timeline of the series.
Timeline Image: https://i2.endoftheinter.net/i/n/d4e82ed2e88db6a9768bd4998fa85349/unnamed.jpg
1970s Page Image: https://i4.endoftheinter.net/i/n/fd002ecbe566e6ac8817a304114ac3ba/oceshot.jpg
Exhibit F Metal Gear Solid Legacy Collection
PoOps is not included in the MGS Legacy Collection, which is advertised as containing all canonical games in the series at that point in time (hence it does not contain MGSV)