Board Thread:General Discussion/@comment-86.46.22.35-20130403153709/@comment-64.33.250.214-20140727012235

Weedle McHairybug wrote:

64.33.250.214 wrote:

Weedle McHairybug wrote:

64.33.250.214 wrote:

Weedle McHairybug wrote:

Misterbunnsy wrote: For god's sake. These theories are so ridiculous.

The first twin clones (Solid and Liquid) were born in 1972. Solidus came sometime later (though when exactly is not clear)

His accelerated aging allowed him to appear in his late thirties / early forties when he was only about mid twenties. There is no physical way for a child to be accelerated in aging to appear to be a man. Solidus would be three at the oldest by Ground Zeroes (that's if he was born in '72, shortly after the first clones) and it would not be possible for him to keep watch for someone over 9 years.

The only way it could be Solidus is if Kojima retcons a heap of information. Well, Solidus DID appear middle aged when he was at the very least in his late teens.

That being said, it's doubtful that he is Solidus. He already has a name, one that isn't even biblical anyways (George). On that note, I'm still doubtful Eli is intended to be Liquid. Even with the Kanji in the Japanese version, I find it odd that the English version would use another, more wordy phrase than use "Liquid Man" (and really, "Never Be Game Over" is indeed twice as wordy as "Liquid Man"). And if it was to avoid spoilers, frankly they shouldn't have used "Liquid Man" at all, whether in the Japanese version or not.

And besides, Kojima has had a history of exposing major characters as being related to if not directly the same as characters who appeared in the series before (as evidenced by his confirmation that Kazuhira Miller is the same as Master Miller in MG2 and MGS, that Ocelot in MGS3 is indeed a younger version of Ocelot from MGS1 and MGS2, that Huey is indeed "who we think he is" regarding a relation to Otacon, and, heck, he even confirmed that Naked Snake was indeed the same guy as Big Boss, or at least strongly implied it in an interview and confirmed it with the leaked voice document for MGS3). If Eli was intended to be Liquid, I'm pretty sure he would have pointed it out, if not flat out, then probably like how he "confirmed" that Huey was Otacon's father (not a direct explicit confirmation, but strongly implied). We're pretty close to release (as evidenced by even the official site giving out pre-orders for the game), yet he still hasn't said anything that either directly confirmed or otherwise strongly implied Eli's connection to Liquid. I wouldn't say ridiculous. Stranger things have happened in MGS. Like Liquid returning by way of haunted arm, which was never fully retconned. Liquid's arm was removed prior to MGS4, implying that Ocelot may have been legitimately influenced by it during the events of MGS2.

The Patriots could have created the opposite effect for Solidus's accelerated aging process, causing him to age faster in the beginning. Even though he was the last successful clone, they needed Solidus to age quickly in order to make him President. Accelerated aging kicked in later for Liquid and Solid, at a point when they were no longer deemed viable.

Due to accelerated aging, Solidus would have looked physically in his 20s by 1984. This is supported by the fact he went on to train children as his own soldiers sometime during the late 80s. Canon seems to line up with the "Make It Right" trailer for Metal Gear Rising. In it, Solidus appears as an adult. If Solidus was cloned in 1972, in 12 years he could be physically built like Ishmael.

In the real world there's no way for a child to be accelerated to be a full grown man, but it also isn't possible to create perfect identical clones either. MGS is science fiction. Kojima doesn't need to make anyone believe it's possible, he just needs players to suspend their disbelief. That is how the franchise has worked from the beginning, and it's not likely Kojima will drastically change strategies for Phantom Pain.

The trickiest part of the theory is explaining how Solidus watched over Big Boss for 9 years. One possibility is Chico, who has been absent from the Phantom Pain trailers. There are numerous suspicious details surrounding Chico. Most obvious is the fact he shares the same physical traits as the clones (hair and eye color). He also likes smoking as evidenced in Peace Walker. All clones except Liquid took up the habit of smoking.

How could Chico be Solidus? That's where suspension of disbelief comes in. In about 3 years time, imagine Solidus physically aging to be almost a teen. Mental development might also be sped up by accelerated aging, if you suspend disbelief. Solidus has an IQ of 180. As a child he would have been mentally beyond all others. It's worth noting Peace Walker states Chico was small for his age.

So if Chico were Solidus, that could explain Ishmael being Solidus, and how he was able to watch over Big Boss for 9 years. It's a complicated theory, but the most plausible way to connect Ishmael and Solidus. Aside from the whole name thing. Speaking of...

George is likely the name the Patriots gave him for the sake of presidency, or he personally chose it because he admired George Washington. In this day and age, a presidential candidate named Ishmael would receive some pushback from voters. Much like Obama received during his bid for election. It isn't clear who named the clones, but it is favorable that Solidus would have a name like Ishmael. Just as it's also highly likely that Eli is Liquid's name.

Judging by appearance, Eli is roughly about the same age Liquid would be. He also has the same eye color as the clones (green), and his hair appears bleached. You can clearly see brown at the roots. Brown is Big Boss's hair color, so it would be the same for the clones. Solid and Solidus changed eye color to blue when they aged to match Big Boss. The same would likely have happened to Liquid if he had outlived FOXDIE.

Kojima has given Biblical names to major characters. It's doubtful he would do the same for some random. Why would Kojima give away Eli's identity this early? Even though most of us believe Eli is Liquid, it might cheapen the experience to confirm that outside of game. Eli's character model isn't exactly the spitting image of Liquid. There's just enough of a resemblance to keep people guessing. In the case of Huey, Kaz, and even Ocelot, it was fairly obvious who they looked like. I find it hard to believe that Chico is Solidus, actually. For starters, Chico explicitly stated his age was twelve years old when rescued by Big Boss, and considering Amanda explicitly attributed his short stature to being malnourishment... well, you can probably see where I'm getting at.

With that said, I agree with most of your points (maybe not the Eli bit, but we'll wait and see on that). Chico's backstory could have been made up. If Chico were a clone, he may have been kept unaware of that fact. Remember in Ground Zeroes, Amanda acted suspicious regarding Chico's situation. Kaz mentioned this to Big Boss. Amanda is in a position where she can lie about Chico's age and the reason for his short stature, and Big Boss would be none the wiser.

It's not the easiest theory to accept, but really the only way to connect Ishmael and Solidus. Personally, I don't find it that hard to believe. Knowing the twists and turns the story has taken through the years. You just have to suspend disbelief on certain things, like accelerated aging and nanomachines.

If you don't agree that Eli is Liquid, what other important character do you think he could be? With the exception of Jonathan from MGS4, Kojima usually only reserves Biblical names for major characters.

John: Big Boss

Adam: Ocelot

Eve: Eva

David: Solid

Eli: Liquid???

Ishmael: ...

Eli isn't Raiden, and there really aren't any other important male characters who would be Eli's age during Phantom Pain's timeframe. Except for Liquid... There's a problem with the Chico=Solidus theory, though: Amanda and her FSLN unit are supposed to be fighting against America's influence in Nicaragua (she specifically blames America for the Somoza regime in one of the briefing files), and later fought off the KGB. Why would she willingly accept a child from a presumed American group (Cipher was based in America) when she's supposed to be fighting against the Somoza regime and by extension, America? Heck, why would her father, for that matter? And I'm pretty sure Chico would be aware of time passing, so him not knowing he's not actually 12 is unlikely. That's also assuming that Solidus was even born by that point. For all we know, due to Miller only saying "Two already?" in the secret call, Solidus may have been born in very late 1974, 1975, possibly even 1976 for all we know. And keep in mind that Miller already met Chico by that time. For most children as their brains develop, they tend to forget their earliest years. We know that when Solidus was younger, he questioned the unnatural state of his existence. To the extent he kidnapped Raiden to test whether or not his actions were the result of someone else (ie The Patriots). This shows Solidus didn't have a full grasp on reality, because his history was distorted and he learns this at some point.

Assuming Chico was a clone, assuming the earliest he was created was 1972, and assuming accelerated aging effected his perception of time, he may have only had sufficient memory of a year or less prior to Peace Walker. Peace Walker takes place in 1974, 2 years after the cloning project began. By that time, any clone would have been indoctrinated by The Patriots.

Why Amanda would play along and pretend a clone was her brother is anybody's guess. Maybe Zero stole her baby. The Patriots do like to steal babies... Seriously though, there's any number of reasons why Amanda would work for Cipher. If it turned out she had any affiliation with them at all, then that would bring her backstory into question as well.

There's also the possibility that Kojima will retcon some things. For example, pushing back the date of Solidus's creation. Maybe Miller was deliberately misinformed about the creation of Solidus. During the phone call at the end of MGS1, Ocelot says no one knew Solidus was the third one. Either that meant know one knew Solidus was the President, or no one knew there was even a third clone. No one left alive, anyway. Perhaps Big Boss finds out about Solidus in Phantom Pain...

Besides Chico's physical traits matching up with the clones, another peculiar bit of evidence lends creedence to the idea that he is Solidus. Remember last years trailer with "Sins of the Father"? It's a Biblical reference. Suspiciously enough, the title "Sins of the Father" appears specifically during Chico's last trailer scene...