Board Thread:General Discussion/@comment-166.137.88.23-20130610185107/@comment-1971498-20130622113745

Weedle McHairybug wrote: DementedP wrote: Weedle McHairybug wrote: Maybe, although the idea that "Liquid Ocelot" was faking it to fool the Patriots' AIs seems to contradict that the S3 Plan was a resounding success, of which the entire point of the exercise was to demonstrate how humanity's will was destined to be shaped. That requires a significant amount of fundamental understanding on how human nature works, otherwise the S3 Plan would have failed before it started. Heck, even Solid Snake, who was pretty much stated to be the wild card of the mission in both the game itself and supplementary materials such as the director's commentary, was easily manipulated by the S3 Plan, as strongly implied by the AI's speech to Raiden (such as claiming that the entire exercise was "a resounding success" despite claiming earlier that Solid Snake's presence alone was contaminating the project) and even the fact that they were able to leave a fake trace to them.

To be fair, the S3 Plan had been declared as a success even before "Liquid Ocelot" emerged, as dictated by Ocelot himself when he gave that full-blown revelation. So any sort of "contamination" would've been treated as being insignifact at best. In that regard, I doubt that the AIs really factored Ocelot into any fixed role as he himself was one of their spies, so anything that happened to him (or what he did) was outside of their priority (unless he intentionally screwed over their plot before the whole thing actually finished). Though I need clarification for this, but wasn't Ocelot kept in the dark in terms of what the S3 Plan was truly meant for? In that regard, it'd make sense why Ocelot waited before he could take over and use their PMC companies against them to strike in MGS4 as he wouldn't have known what the purpose of it really was.

That said, it also makes sense why Ocelot would have waited until the SOP system was implemented, as hijacking GW actually gave him a huge advantage against the AIs and their control over military resources than say, if he rebelled earlier.

He was implied to be kept in the dark about its true nature in MGS2 ("Ocelot was not given the whole truth [about the S3 Plan], to say the very least"), although Naomi's knowledge on the Patriots plans despite most likely not even being affiliated with them at the time (not to mention that she, at least according to MGS4, was with Ocelot the entire time ever since she was broken out of jail) suggests that at the very least, he deduced what they were planning. The Patriots were also well-known control freaks, so the idea that they would be comparatively lax regarding contamination even after it was a success is really OOC. Heck, its implied that they had Ames die in the S3 Plan simply because he not only deliberately allowed Nastasha Romanenko to live, but even supplied her with critical data on Shadow Moses for her to leak in her book. Plus, technically, the S3 Plan hadn't even finished until Raiden killed Solidus, since they forced them to fight each other before declaring it to be closed, and Solid Snake even implied at one point in the ending that the S3 Plan might still be running when commenting about rescuing Sunny (he mentioned something about Raiden needing to stay alive to ensure Sunny remains alive, referring to how they basically wired Sunny to be literally dependent on Raiden's life for survival as a means to force Olga and later Raiden to participate in the S3 Plan). Still, given the forced nature behind Solidus and Raiden's battle as well as their overall mentality at that point, it was practically assured that the S3 Plan was going to be completed. In that regard, the two of them were already going to play in their respective roles regardless of the fact that it wasn't fully completed at the time. The fact that they didn't consider "Liquid" as contaminating the S3 Plan further displays how they treated him as something insignificant. Had it been Ocelot openly declaring his own revolution against the AIs, I can see them reacting much more differently. As for Snake's comment about the S3 Plan being unfinished, that felt more like it was just left up in the air to keep the mystique surrounding the Patriots AI within the story than anything that's truly confirmed (heck who's to say that the AIs weren't smart enough and flexible enough to adjust and shape the events based on whatever was going on anyway? It's not like the whole of MGS2 was literally an exact copy of the roles they chose for each character).