Talk:Revolver Ocelot

Volgin Wha!?
Ok, here's one little thing that bugged me about this article: colonel FREAKING VOLGIN raised ocelot? where the hell did THAT one come from? I'm pretty sure he was just the commander!ConceitVolatile 03:19, 12 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Urr, I'm not sure actually. I'll have to re-research it! --Fantomas 13:23, 9 January 2008 (UTC)
 * EVA says he was raised by GRU. And Colonel Volgin is the head of GRU... so...! But she's merely under that impression, and if Ocelot worked for the NSA she could be mistaken.--Aldrius 19:32, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

gun
dose any one no the modle gun he used before Big boss surgested he switched to a revolver User:Captain-One

ocerlots mother is the boss(the joy) and his farther is the sorrow

It looks like a Walther PP model. I've never seen confirmation though.Major Wolf 23:06, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

It's stated in the game that it's a Makarov --Drawde83 00:16, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

N== Philosophers in PO? ==

The wiki says, "Ocelot has become dissatisfied with the Philosophers bickering, which as pitted the CIA against the Pentagon for control of the legacy."

What were they bickering over? Between the CIA and the Pentagon? What role do they have between the dissent between the CIA and the Pentagon?

When the CIA recovered half of the legacy after operation snake eater it caused a 'split' within the US Philosophers, which is why The Pentagon are trying to recover the missing half of the legacy for themselves during MPO.
 * The US Philosophers exerted their influence through the CIA and The Pentagon(as stated by Gene), therefore a powerstruggle between the the CIA & Pentagon basically amounts to infighting within the Philosophers.

So in a nutshell the US Philosophers are made up of two branches and the Pentagon branch is trying to one-up the CIA branch by discrediting them and recovering the remainder of the legacy. This is what the 'bickering' refers to.

The Last Days of FOXHOUND
I personally believe that not only should an entry be made for the webcomic "The Last Days of FOXHOUND" be made on here (Haloepedia has its own entry for Red vs. Blue, why not a similar fanwork?), but that each member of FOXHOUND (and other cast members) should get a sub-entry in their articles about their role and appearance in the comic. In this case, of course, there should be an entry on Revolver Ocelot. I already made an unsigned (and rather abridged) entry in the Liquid Snake article about his role in the comic and think Ocelot should have his own sub-entry for his role in the comic as well.

For the uninitiated, here is the comic in question: http://www.gigaville.com/listcomic.php

User:Crow T R0bot 22:48 22 July 2008 (EDT)


 * lets see, what makes you think there is a problem with having an article about "The Last Days of FOXHOUND"? (we have one for Metal Gear Awesome). I'm unfamiliar with the web comic you are talking about but I would recommend creating it's own article with all the information in it rather than spreading bits and pieces all over the place. Having said that if you want to contribute that information to the articles, go for it. The worst that can happen is it gets removed.
 * --Drawde83 03:11, 23 July 2008 (UTC)


 * My problem is that I have no prior experience with creating wiki articles and only a little experience with editing already existing ones. I will take your advice to hear though and do some research on how to make one before I ask someone else first, unless someone else would like to get on the ball with it.
 * --User:Crow T R0bot 00:58, 23 July EDT

General Ivan
While Vulcan Raven explicitly calls Ocelot "General Ivan" at one point during the FOXHOUND Rebellion, he says it in such a manner that it's used as a mocking term:

"Ocelot: You see? I told you so. But I will kill him. Raven: So, General Ivan, I hear he took your hand as well as your dignity. Ocelot: Watch your tongue, Shaman!" Ocelot's reaction to the remark is obviously a reference that "General Ivan," as Raven called him, was simply a derogatory and outright racist and mocking remark alluding to Ocelot's nationality. Thus, it shouldn't be added as one of his aliases. -- Ocelot youth 19:00, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I reverted it at first because I had never heard Ivan used as a racist term for Russians. I did some research on the name and Wikipedia said it was similar to how Americans used the term "Charlie" for the Vietnamese during the Vietnam War. Since then I've pretty much stayed out of the whole argument. --Fantomas 20:19, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, i dont know if you've ever played a game called Operation Flashpoint; but in that game theres a fictional conflict between the US and the Soviet Union during the Cold War and the Americans always refer to the russians collectively as 'Ivan'.
 * I've never even heard of that game, let alone played it. --Fantomas 14:33, 27 January 2009 (UTC)

NSA?
Is it really neccesarry to put NSA as one of his affiliations? I'm pretty sure he was just posing as an NSA codebreaker when he 'defected' to the soviet union and was never actually part of the organisation.


 * I was the one that put that info. The games and database never actually say he never worked for the NSA. They only say that he was an NSA codebreaker. The database even mentions how Ocelot and the real EVA appeared on a news program in Moscow. Here's the database info.


 * "NSA Defection Incident"


 * "In September 1960, two people who had worked as code breakers at NSA Headquarters appeared on a news program in Moscow. They announced their defection to the Soviet Union and disclosed NSA's cryptanalytic missions. This was the first incident to reveal the truth behind NSA to the world."


 * I do admit though that it would be pretty odd for a 16 year old to work for the NSA. Anyway, you are probably right. I'm guessing the Philosophers had Ocelot and the real EVA to pretend to work for the NSA in order to get the Philosopher's Legacy. The defection part was obviously a facade.


 * Anyway, I've removed the references.


 * I didn't see this when I reverted you edits, you made it sound like you had just heard it somewhere! I don't feel like we have enough here to flat out remove the parts where it says he worked for the NSA. Perhaps we should just put that he posed as one, despite the fact that it's almost like we're just assuming that he posed as one. It's not too much of a stretch to see him working for them, and it's pssible he got the job at such a young age because of his connections to The Boss. I'm not sure. I've re-reverted the edits until we can decide on something. --Fantomas 17:51, 26 March 2009 (UTC)

It's okay. Thanks. I wish the database had cleared it up but it didn't.


 * I doubt it's unreasonable to assume that he had gotten special treatment due to his being the Boss's Son. I mean, if he was allowed to be a GRU member at what is implied to be at a very early age, whose to say that Ocelot can't just be an NSA codebreaker as well? I mean, unless Ocelot pulled an "EVA" and posed as ADAM while "taking care of" the real ADAM, I really don't see why he wouldn't work at the NSA (especially seeing how Zero explicitly stated that ADAM and EVA were former NSA codebreakers who defected into the Soviet Union.) Weedle McHairybug 02:03, February 24, 2010 (UTC)


 * Well, we don't know whether the fake EVA killed the real EVA. It's possible that he was still in Moscow during the events of Snake Eater. --70.126.138.182 16:19, February 24, 2010 (UTC)

Adam NOT Adamska
Everyone needs to stop listing his name as Adamska, as its actually a female name. EVA calls him 'Adam' in MGS4 and as the two had known eachother for many years it can be assumed that its his proper name. He probably just said his name was Adamska in MGS3 because he was supposed to be Russian, it was a way of maintaining his cover.
 * Or maybe Kojima didn't know it was a female name? EVA most likely called him ADAM because that was his code-name he used during Snake Eater. --Fantomas 12:49, 26 March 2009 (UTC)

The database says his name IS Adamska. Adam is just the American version of it.

I'm not sure this is right
The article claims that the Liquid Snake in Ocelot's head was wholly a fabrication, but that doesn't seem correct; while it isn't the Liquid Snake, it appears he has a second personality which is a Liquid Snake, as he remembers things Ocelot didn't witness (most obviously, he recalls Liquid's death). There's further precident in that the copy of Psycho Mantis in Screaming Mantis' head also remembers things witnessed by nobody but him and Snake. By this, it seems that it's possible in the MGS-verse to copy someone's entire personality and memories and somehow implant it into someone else; the new personality being as real as the original, perhaps overruling but not replacing the old one. The arm, presumably, was a cover story so the Liquid personality didn't become suspicious of its origins. Evil Tim 06:45, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
 * In Metal Gear Solid 4, it was indeed a fabrication. Most likely Ocelot claimed these thing due to memories of while Liquid Snake possessed him in Metal Gear Solid 2 (as it is heavily implied that Ocelot was aware of what he was doing while being possessed, such as briefly resuming his composure to bite his/Liquid's arm and shouting "Get... Out... Of... My... Head... LIQUID!!!!".) So if he's aware of his actions while possessed, he might as well remember some of Liquid's memories, INCLUDING his last few moments at life, without actually having Liquid's consciousness in him. I mean, take Samantha Carter from Stargate SG1, for example. After having been a host for a Tok'ra for a brief while, and after it sacrificed itself to save her, she has the memories of that Tok'ra as well, even knowing how to use Gou'al'oud Technology and sensing a Gou'al'oud nearby.
 * But the MGS2 Liquid and the MGS4 Liquid are the same thing; either it was always Liquid Snake (MGS4 certainly suggests that wasn't the case), was a copy of Liquid Snake's mind convinced it was the real one (which is what I got from 4), or Ocelot made the whole thing up. Regardless, nothing changed between 2 and 4, and the 'magic hand' apparently wasn't posessing him at any point in either game. Evil Tim 12:32, 22 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Since Liquid had nanomachines during MGS, they could have recorded everything he did and thought up until his death, allowing Ocelot to access his entire personality and memories when his corpse was retrieved. This could also mean that he wasn't faking the "take-overs" he suffered during MGS2, as they could have been adverse reactions to the nanomachines he was using to program himself with Liquid's personality. In that case, we might consider the Liquid portion to be a separate entity unto itself, perpetuated and controlled by the nanomachines (meme), while Ocelot is represented by his own mind (gene). Oreng3 05:24, 23 May 2009 (UTC)
 * But I don't recall any example of Nanomachines having such a capability in the MGS universe, and the plot reveals regarding the Magic Hand in 4 are pretty clear that the arm itself wasn't the cause of the new personality, it was deliberately inserted and the arm added afterwards. This is borne out in that we also have a personality added without a body part addition (there's no evidence any part of Psycho Mantis was grafted onto Screaming Mantis) and body part additions that don't change the host's personality (Big Boss shows no signs of being posessed by Liquid). Evil Tim 06:49, 23 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Well, Liquid WAS posses by Liquid in Metal Gear Solid 2. This was probably because he's the son of The Sorrow, and it's easy to assume he inherited some of the The Sorrow's abilities. But he was only posses when he was near Solid Snake. After the events of Metal Gear Solid 2 Ocelot had the arm removed, and replaced with a cybernetic one. He used nanomachines and hypnotherapy to "become" Liquid. So while Liquid really WAS in control of him in MGS2, that isn't the case in MGS4. As for the events that only Liquid and Snake knew about... It's possible that Ocelot witnessed those too. He could have been nearby and seen them for all we know. We don't really know WHERE he was near the end of the first game, so it's possible that he could have been watching from nearby, just a theory. Though I think the theory about Ocelot having Liquid's memories after being possessed might be true too. Yoyoddd 19:07 (UTC)

Liquid never possessed Ocelot. This was made very clear in MGS4.


 * I believe that it was INTENDED that he actually be Liquid Snake in MGS2, but we have to accept that this has now been retconned in MGS4. The story was intended to end in "Sons of Liberty", but fans demanded more sequels so the storyline was altered. Therefore, Liquid Ocelot was never possessed by the ghost of Liquid. As for the memories thing, as someone mentioned above, these are more about the player's experience rather than literally the memories of the characters onscreen. After all, how could Solid Snake have Big Boss's memories of giving a salute in the same cemetary in MGS4?--Bluerock 15:26, February 14, 2010 (UTC)


 * He may not have been possessed during Metal Gear Solid 4, but I doubt he was never possessed by Liquid in MGS2. First off, in the scene where Liquid reveals himself to be possessing Ocelot in the end of the Tanker Chapter, Revolver Ocelot shouts "Get Out Of My Mind LIQUID!!!!" and bites into their arm (and you can even hear screaming mixed together), and I do doubt that someone would say that and not be possessed, especially considering hypno-therapy/nanomachines combinations (When Big Boss was talking about what Liquid did, he made it seem as though he completely transformed himself and believed himself to be Liquid's doppelganger overnight, without any conflict.). Also, when you are talking to Ames, if you point the directional microphone at Ocelot right when he is trying to struggle Liquid's mind from taking over, you can distinctly hear two heartbeats (as in, two hearts beating at the exact same time). This was kept in the novelization, and Raiden even wonders if he has two hearts, even though it is impossible.). Finally, if he wanted to just fake possession, why bother replacing Liquid's arm with a cybernetic? Wouldn't Ocelot sell the act even better if Ocelot kept the arm (assuming, of course, that he actually faked possession from the start)? Besides, Big Boss's revelation of how Ocelot was faking it the whole time, the way he worded it would have made it impossible for it to actually be since before the Tanker Incident (He also mentioned EVA being responsible [via Raiden] for stealing Big Boss's remains from the Patriots, and given how it was done, I definitely doubt it was during the entirety of the Manhattan Incident [Tanker Incident included], seeing how the way he worded it made it seem as though it was around the same time. Either way, I changed it because, MGS4 saying it was a fake the entire time or not, it makes more sense if it was MGS4 that he faked it instead of just the entire time. Weedle McHairybug 15:31, February 14, 2010 (UTC)
 * The thing is, he never revealed he even had a cybernetic arm until after JD was destroyed. The whole screaming about Liquid being in his head could have been just an act, and having Liquid's arm in the first place would fool everyone into believing it. Even EVA was convinced that he was possessed. The two heartbeat thing could be an effect of the nanomachines (isn't everything, lol). Perhaps his body rejected Liquids arm naturally, so he got it replaced. Anyway, however you look at it, things just don't add up either way so perhaps the point should just be left ambiguous? --Bluerock 15:56, February 14, 2010 (UTC)
 * Well, as long as it doesn't hint one way or another at his faking it the entire time, I'll be all right with it. Although, EVA being convinced, I'm a bit doubtful of that. I mean, didn't Big Boss mention that the entire thing was EVA, Ocelot, and Naomi's idea and that they came up with it together? Weedle McHairybug 16:01, February 14, 2010 (UTC)
 * Possibly, though she seemed awfully hurt after Ocelot rejected her, after reaching out to him (Eastern Europe), but hell, maybe she's acting too. Damn it, so confusing, lol. Well the new wording isn't perfect but I guess it'll have to do. Maybe someone can word it better?--Bluerock 16:13, February 14, 2010 (UTC)
 * I doubt EVA sacrificed her "children". Didn't you watch the cutscenes? She was clearly devastated when she saw her "children" die, when she saw the Pyx burned to a crisp and when Solidus' body was burned to a crisp. Hell, I seriously doubt that Ocelot would send all those mercenaries to kill EVA and take Solidus and Big Boss's remains if they all knew that Liquid never possessed Ocelot. The evidence clearly shows that EVA did not know anything about the possession hoax. --70.126.138.182 16:29, February 24, 2010 (UTC)

"Ocelot shouts "Get Out Of My Mind LIQUID!!!!"

It's called ACTING. I could say the same thing. Would that mean Liquid possessed me too? --70.126.138.182 16:29, February 24, 2010 (UTC)


 * Uhh... yeah. I get the fact that you think/know that Ocelot was faking possession, but... you said that Ocelot was acting, right? He did act in an extremely believable manner assuming that he was indeed faking during MGS2, so why must you insist that EVA actually didn't know anything about Ocelot's playing excorcist? EVA was probably acting as well (and it was implied in the ending that they came up with that plan together). If you can admit that Ocelot is acting in a very believable manner, why is it that you seem to think that EVA wasn't acting? Is there some sort of difference that I'm missing or something? Weedle McHairybug 00:37, February 25, 2010 (UTC)


 * Uhh...yeah. Because EVA would NOT sacrifice all her "children" to put on an act. Do you seriously think that Ocelot and EVA would sent countless soldiers to kill each other, destroy the pyx and steal Big Boss's and Solidus's bodies if they were working together. Think before you ask a stupid question, Otness. Have a good night. --72.186.98.60 23:30, February 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * Considering how Big Boss stated in the ending that that plan was something they came up together in an attempt to revive Big Boss and destroy the Patriots/defeat Zero, yes, I do think that they would have done that. BTW, did you change computers or something? I'm asking because your IP address is a bit different. Weedle McHairybug 23:39, February 26, 2010 (UTC)


 * It would seem Ocelot and EVA both wanted to free Big Boss in the beginning, but after Ocelot became "Liquid", he essentially became a different person. His motives now seemed to be more about taking control of the SOP system and taking the place of the Patriots, which is something EVA would most likely be opposed to. Ocelot did not reveal his true intentions to her, in order to maintain the whole act, and decieve the Patriots. This is a possible explanation, since there is nothing to really suggest that EVA was specifically involved in Ocelot's plan to become Liquid's doppelganger. That's my attempt to rationalize it anyway. --Bluerock 00:02, February 27, 2010 (UTC)


 * Thank you, Gorman. And no, Weedle, I did not switch computers. I have a dynamic modem. My IP address changes from time to time. Have a great weekend guys. :) --72.186.98.60 12:53, February 27, 2010 (UTC)

The Real Son of the Boss
Everyone knows that Ocelot is really The Boss's son, Adamska, but what I wanna know is where and when was this revealed? I don't remember them saying this in MGS3 or MGS4, when was the information of Ocelot being The Boss's son revealed?
 * There is a conversation with EVA after you fight Ocelot in MGS3 where she mentions that he is the son of a legendary soldier (explaining why he became a Major at such a young age) and that his mother has a snake shaped scar. At the end of MGS3, The Boss reveals she has a snake shaped scar. --Fantomas 00:11, 4 July 2009 (UTC)

Ocelot And Sergei Gurlukovitch
When exactly did Ocelot meet Sergei Gurlukovitch? did they meet around the time during metal gear solid 3? because i heard they both served in the Spetsnaz GRU....

And it said they met up after Shadow Moses. what did they do together during that time before the tanker incident.

And was Sergei Gurlukovitch acquainted with Solidus Snake at all? because he seemed like he knew Ocelot was "in league" with him.

And Did Ocelot ever really work for Liquid Snake or Solidus Snake? and if not what was the point of aligning himself with them??


 * I think a lot of these topics were left as a mystery on purpose. Therefore they don't explain them any further in any of the games and you'll have to come up with your own theories. anyway here's what I think.


 * Sergei is never mentioned in MGS3 and I'm unsure of him being in spetsnaz.


 * see response on Solidus talk page.


 * Sergei and his forces were supposed to reinforce Shadow Moses but they didn't make it in time.


 * No he was working for the patriots the whole time. His role was always to control the outcome of events in The Patriots favour. He could only do that by aligning with them.


 * --Drawde83 21:15, 5 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Wait, I thought Revolver Ocelot was actually trying to fulfill Big Boss's dream of stopping the Patriots in their Tracks (like what was stated in MGS4)?


 * Well that makes it a little more difficult. Sergei wasn't involved in MGS4 so we are getting away from the original question. I suppose Ocelot's real motive (remember just my opinion) was to stop the patriots without ruining the world. remember how Sunny's virus removed the control parts of the system while keeping the parts that prevented anarchy. --Drawde83 21:59, September 23, 2009 (UTC)

What you don't believe? Ocelot .Ghost.
I believe he(Ocelot) was possession. Don't forget who his father was. The Sorrow. In technical terms it's called a medium. Ocelot has the ability to channel spirits through him.

What you don't believe in ghosts? Then I guess you don't believe in Him either.


 * Hey, it's not that I don't believe in God (I'm Roman Catholic, and I would have left if I didn't believe in our father) It's more the fact that MGS4 had apparently retconned the whole Liquid possession thing. I do think that Ocelot was possessed in MGS2, however. The main reason is that, assuming he did adopt Liquid's persona via nano-machines and hypnotherapy, I kinda doubt that he could even create conflict within himself (Didn't Big Boss's statement imply that Ocelot completely changed himself as a direct result of the hypnotherapy?). To me, if I did that kind of thing, I'd be able to transform into Liquid overnight (which the conversation between Big Boss and Solid Snake implied). Seeing how he had legitimate conflict on it (or at least, it seemed legitimate), I'm guessing that Liquid Ocelot [the illusion, I mean, not the MGS2 version] actually came into being around MGS4 (this is supported by the fact that he replaced his arm as well as the fact that Big Boss's description of the events implied that EVA stealing Big Boss's body via Raiden and Ocelot's faked complete possession had started around the same time.). Weedle McHairybug 03:50, February 24, 2010 (UTC)
 * I don't recall any of us saying we don't believe in ghosts, (or how you could have insinuated from that initial assumption that we therefore don't believe in God), we're just trying to figure out what really happened regarding Ocelot becoming Liquid with the confusing and conflicting information the games give us. --Fantomas 12:59, February 24, 2010 (UTC)
 * Yes, I'm an athiest. I don't believe in "him". But that has nothing to do with the debate. Big Boss never suggests that Ocelot was actually possessed. He made it very clear that Ocelot was faking it the entire time. They even show flashbacks of Ocelot during the tanker incident when Big Boss says "cats do love to play as snakes" which implies that Ocelot was faking it during the tanker incident too. --70.126.138.182 16:48, February 24, 2010 (UTC)

Here's what the database says. There are some contradictions.

http://natmal.net/mgsdb/

"Liquid Snake's Right Arm"

After Revolver Ocelot had his right hand cut off during the Shadow Moses Incident, he paid a transplant team in Lyon, France to attach Liquid Snake's right arm to his body. However, whenever Solid Snake is nearby, Revolver Ocelot acts as if Liquid Snake's mind has reawakened and taken over his consciousness.

Eventually, Liquid Snake manages to take over Revolver Ocelot's mind completely, creating Liquid Ocelot. After this, Ocelot removes the arm and uses a prosthetic instead.

Liquid Ocelot's personality was actually nothing more than the man-made product of Revolver Ocelot's own autosuggestion.

"Ocelot"

It was then that Ocelot began to act as if his body had been taken over by Liquid Snake's will, lingering within his right arm. Ocelot, playing the part of Liquid, announced that he was off to bury the Patriots, boarded Metal Gear RAY (manned), then disappeared into the sea. Ocelot, with his right arm replaced with that of Liquid Snake, later has his body taken over by Liquid Snake's psyche. The fusion that resulted was Liquid Ocelot.

"Liquid Snake"

After losing his right hand in the Shadow Moses Incident, Ocelot had Liquid Snake's arm surgically grafted onto his body and took on Liquid's ambitions under the guise of Liquid Ocelot.

"Liquid Ocelot"

The mind of Liquid Snake, housed in the body of Revolver Ocelot. Balance was restored to his psyche after the right hand that housed Liquid Snake's will was surgically replaced as a prosthetic limb. He ran Outer Heaven, a mother company that secretly controlled the world's five largest PMCs (Private Military Companies), and plotted to lead a rebellion against the Patriots using its military power.

Liquid Ocelot's personality was actually nothing more than the man-made product of Revolver Ocelot's own drug use and autosuggestion. Revolver Ocelot played the part of Liquid Ocelot in order to awaken Big Boss, who had been kept in a comatose state by the Patriots' AI collective, to find the whereabouts of Zero. He posed as a Liquid Snake doppelgänger in order to hide those intentions from the core AI, JD. Once he had destroyed JD from the inside, his mission as Liquid Ocelot was over. When his life was subsequently claimed by FOXDIE, he died as Revolver Ocelot himself.
 * "Balance was restored to his psyche after the right hand that housed Liquid Snake's will was surgically replaced as a prosthetic limb." That's quite an unusual line right there. That, to me, suggests that Ocelot was in actual physcological turmoil until he removed Liquid's right arm, and it wasn't until then that he played the part. What makes this line even more unusual are all the other referrences to Ocelot playing the part all along, as all the other articles you've quoted suggest. It's this kind of thing that makes the database largely unreliable in my eyes, like it was made by a group of people with conflicting views, much like this wiki itself.
 * And here are all of Big Boss' lines regarding Ocelot at the end of MGS4.:
 * "Ocelot and EVA wanted two things, to bring me back to life, and to end the Patriots. That meant destroying the AI and killing the man, JD and Zero." "And Ocelot... In order to fool the System... Used nanomachines and psychotherapy to transplant Liquid's personality onto his own. He used hypnotic suggestion to turn himself into Liquid's mental doppelganger. For all our advances in nanotechnology... Information and genetic control... They've never managed to control people at will... Let alone turn one person totally into another."
 * Big Boss himself doesn't make it very clear at all to be honest. It's only the flashback images of the Tanker Incident that really hit the idea home. --Fantomas 17:44, February 24, 2010 (UTC)
 * For once, Fantomas is friendly. Very shocking indeed. Anyway, I have no problem with the sentence "although it's unknown if during the Manhattan Incident, Ocelot was really possessed by Liquid or not". It's a very fair compromise. ;)--70.126.138.182 17:49, February 24, 2010 (UTC)

MGS4 The Matrix?
Is it just me or has anybody notice that a MGS2 and MGS4 borrow a lot of elements from The Matrix. Eva Ocelot and even Campbell has refered The Patriots as The System. And how a bunch of A.I programs are controlling the people. You know hiding the truth? That most people aren't even aware of The Patriots. Speech restriction similiar to the knowledge of The Matrix. And how Snake represents a saivor just like Neo. Ocelot is similiar to Agent Smith who wishes to destroy The System. And how JD alias J.F.K

was speaking in the same computer language when it was talking to Raiden in MGS2. Just like The Architect. Viewing humans as a mathematical equation that must be

balanced. Ocelot's purpose was to destroy The System. Eva sort of represents The Oracle. She explains the true nature of The System.
 * Now that you mention it, it is quite similar in those respects, due to the nature of their stories. --Bluerock 20:27, February 24, 2010 (UTC)
 * Yeah, although unlike The Matrix, the system was indeed destroyed by the end by "Smith". Bit surprising that they didn't make a musical theme with slight similarities to Neodammerung. Weedle McHairybug 20:30, February 24, 2010 (UTC)

Liquid's voice Hair and Missing sleeve. MGS2
I don't think the Liquid Ocelot thing is completely fake. Then how you explain him talking with Liquid's voice. His hair suddenly changed to Liquid's style. And his right sleeve was missing. I don't think you could fake that. He doesn't have ability to mimic other people's voices. And what he said at the end. Why do you think I chose Ocelot as my host?

Ocelot maybe a good actor but not that good.


 * To be honest, I think I have to agree with that, especially seeing how he required hypnotherapy in order to fake out the AIs by acting like Liquid. I'm also pretty certain that hypnotherapy does not create conflict within the individual (something that MGS2 had shown and the "Liquid's arm" article in the database also implied, and the part that was in spoilers, I'm guessing, also hinted at the possession being legitimate up until the prosthetic [not that I believe everything the Database says, of course].). Also, I really doubt that even the most well versed of actors can basically cause their heart to react in such a way as to make it seem as though he had two hearts beating at the same time. Weedle McHairybug 20:47, February 24, 2010 (UTC)

Ocelot's recruitment...
Ok, Here's what I'm wondering. Where should I place Ocelot's recruitment? Should I make it it's own section, put it in the Behind the Scenes section, or, god-forbid, place it in the Portable Ops section itself? I know it's non canon, but at the same time, you don't actually "recruit" Ocelot as much as you "unlock" him for another playthrough, which makes it difficult to discern where to place it. However, I'm also not sure if I should try and place it as a behind the scenes entry, as it's still quite large for an entry, probably too large. I'm going to need some help in regards to this. I might also try to copy/paste EVA's recruitment scenario into the article, as that directly leads into the Ocelot scenario. Weedle McHairybug 03:11, March 11, 2010 (UTC)
 * I think it's own section, above the "trivia" and the "behind the scenes" sections will be fine. --Fantomas 09:36, March 11, 2010 (UTC)