Board Thread:Metal Gear Solid V/@comment-4913740-20150907193503/@comment-1971498-20150909044215

Weedle McHairybug wrote:

RinneSharingan wrote:

Weedle McHairybug wrote: Quite frankly, the story wasn't good, with or without the twist. Honestly, having Zero basically be innocent of the events from 1999 onward would have worked if the tapes didn't imply that EVA, Ocelot, and Big Boss knew about this well beforehand, which made the events of MGS4 even worse than before. I had some misgivings about this game, but I didn't think it would be this bad. Probably the only thing I may have liked is their demonstrating that the whole "to let the world be" view of The Boss's will is arguably even worse than either Zero or Big Boss's interpretations via Skull Face.

EDIT: And quite personally, I'm not sure why Portable Ops is considered alternate universe when, if anything, MGSV and Peace Walker fits this even more due to the huge retcons it made to the overall story. I kinda beg to differ. If anything it goes on to show how wrong both Zero and Big Boss were in that their own plans spiralled out of control and somehow crashed and "merged" together to form the war economy. I think the Boss's true will "to leave the world as it is" was more about peace, learning to put down the gun, stop trying to take control over everything or bring chaos and learn to live in harmony with each other, thus bringing a unified world where soldiers would not be used to fight proxy wars. In a certain sense, it proves both Zero and Big Boss were both right AND wrong at the same time, which in my opinion makes it even more tragic how badly the two fucked up. After all, one point that is crucial to the Metal Gear saga that EVERYONE seems to have skipped over is ESCALATION: how we set events in motion with a certain goal in mind, only to realize how things spin out of control and practically gain a will of their own, tying back to the Patriot AIs and the war economy. As for the trio being aware of Zero's plan, it kinda makes sense since Ocelot has made a name for himself of being a triple agent while his true loyalty belongs with Big Boss, and I think I also read somewhere that even though Big Boss and EVA flat-out quit, Ocelot's resignation letter was a lot more quiet and secretive so as to keep Big Boss in the loop. Fact is, when you put it into perspective it makes Big Boss seem even more heroic when he realizes just how badly Zero fucked up that he piggybacks Zero's plan into his own, but it also makes him even more evil when you realize he went as far as he did to take down the Patriots that he would use Kaz like he did during Phantom Pain.

And for the last time, PORTABLE OPS IS NOT COMPLETELY NON-CANON. Please, sorry if I offend you but get your ehad out of your ass; Kojima himself stated SEVERAL times that while certain details are not entirely canon and have since been retconned, the overall story-arc is canon, what with FOXHOUND's foundation and Gene's Army's Heaven inspiring the concept that would become MSF, Diamond Dogs, Outer Heaven and Zanzibarland. The problem is that MGS4 basically had EVA and Ocelot, heck, even Big Boss basically claiming Zero was still active and actually running things, and that he even gave the order to put Big Boss into a coma personally after Zanzibar Land, and that he went into hiding after Anderson and Para-Medic bit the dust, when MGSV showed in the Truth tapes that that's NOT what happened at all. I could forgive it and simply claim they didn't know such was the case had the tapes also not made clear that at the very least Ocelot and EVA actually knew about Zero's ailing condition (and if the implication that the Truth set of tapes is the same tape that Big Boss sent Venom Snake in the true ending is indeed correct, that means even Big Boss knew), which not only made their actions in MGS4 even more pointless than before, but it also painted an extremely negative light on them as it basically implied that they lied right to the very end to Solid Snake, and that Solid Snake, contrary to what Naked Son stated, was still very much a Snake and not a man, and that he died a tool in the end anyhow, which basically worsened MGS4's storyline. That's the main gripe I have with the story, and there are others as well. Quite frankly, this storyline alone basically rendered practically everything in the series pointless and/or untrue.

And quite frankly, I call The Boss's true will of letting the world be to be utter bull, considering that not only did MGS3 itself and even the commentary make clear she felt change was inevitable and just embrace it, not even bother staying the same, but she even gave a similar speech to Naked Snake about the winner spending a lifetime of endless battle to what Big Boss himself stated to Solid Snake, which if anything spells the complete opposite of what your description or MGS4's description entails. I disagree. While Zero has certainly been given less responsibility, the essence of his fall still persists as the AI Patriots essentially became main antagonist of the series in the end. It still puts EVA and Ocelot at odds with "Zero", or rather, his creation and not the man himself. It doesn't cheapen what Solid Snake did, especially since his actions still ended up beating down the AI Patriots. Your claim that Snake didn't stop being a "Snake" makes no sense whatsoever. Being a Snake meant being an embodiment of the tireless warrior that Big Boss had embodied, and Snake STILL managed to beat that by living out his life normally in the end. There's nothing in MGSV that contradicts this notion, and your insistence that Snake died like a tool seems greatly misplaced given that he had zero accountability for Big Boss and Zero's mishaps. Big Boss explicitly states that he and his Phantom are one, they collectively represent the legend of Big Boss, so taking responsibility for his Phantom's actions is a given and why he'd need to reveal that to Snake is just purely semantics.

The "phantom of Big Boss" twist might be debatably terrible for its convoluted nature, but Zero's involvement and how it retcons our perspective of MGS4 is most certainly not.

As for The Boss's Will, you're taking it very literally in its wording. As a loyal soldier, she desired change in the form of peace, literally "leaving things as they are" in the way that countries should stop fighting over one another as means of changin things as they saw fit. Her speech of spending an endless battle is the meme of carrying on The Boss's burden as a perpetual soldier in the battlefield that is used to fight proxy wars. Her will and her self-resignation of her doomed fate are not mutually exclusive you know.