Board Thread:Metal Gear Solid V/@comment-86.45.17.40-20150909104026/@comment-1672596-20150917203616

Fantomas wrote: Weedle McHairybug wrote: What I meant by that is that he was a tool even AFTER Big Boss told him he no longer was, since he was basically lying to his face about what had transpired in the past regarding their war (and considering the Truth cassette tape the player can listen to is implied to be the same tape the real Big Boss gave Venom Snake in the Truth ending, yes, it does mean Big Boss lied to Snake that time). In other words, he DIED a tool and to make it worse, he doesn't even realize he was played as a tool afterwards.

The trailers, both from Kojima and from Konami, specifically stated that we would see Big Boss's descent into villainy. It was even a huge marketing point for the game. Instead, we never see Big Boss descend at all, with Venom taking his place, and we really don't see much of a fall in Venom Snake's case either.

What specifically makes you think Big Boss was lying to him? All that stuff that Big Boss says at the end of MGS4 is still true. He and Zero were absolutely at odds. Maybe Boss wasn't fighting Zero directly, but he was still rising up against the Patriots (Zero's will - in the same way they refer to the Mamal Pod from Peace Walker as The Boss' will).

And sure, the advertising campaign may have implied we would see Big Boss' descent, but in reality we already had: at the end of MGS3. In MGSV, what we see instead of Big Boss' descent into villainy is the full realization of the depth of his villainy: he uses Venom Snake in the exact same way the American government used The Boss. He became that which he hated. This may not have been explicitly stated to us, but it's pretty clear that was Kojima's intent. It also conflicts with what MG2 showed of the Big Boss character, actually. Even in Metal Gear 2, which was a very dark depiction of the character, he was demonstrated to have saved the Outer Heaven Resistance, risking his life not only from the NATO bombings, but the fact that said resistance were his enemies. Maybe if MG2 made clear he was more of the likes of w:c:ResidentEvil:Albert Wesker (ie, leaving them to be abandoned when they no longer served his purposes and even downright murdering them for it, like what Wesker did to Excella Gionne in Resident Evil 5 and what he nearly tried to do with Ada Wong in Umbrella Chronicles), it would have worked, but it really didn't especially when you take Black Ninja/Kyle Schneider's speech into account. Heck, he saved Gray Fox twice, as well, even when doing so would most likely have been a liability. Not to mention, he didn't even come up with the plan to use Venom Snake as a body double. Zero did, and from what I can tell, they already had at the very least given Venom Snake plastic surgery when Zero paid Big Boss a visit... while the latter was still in a coma, and most likely they already did the hypnotherapy process during that time as well. It's pretty clear Kojima just added it in just for the sake of a twist, because there was absolutely NOTHING that actually promoted the theme or even the so-called plan of actually SHOWING Big Boss's fall. Even the Prequel Trilogy of Star Wars, for all of its problems, depicted Anakin Skywalker's fall to the dark side far better than Kojima did Big Boss.

My idea of truth is he states it EXACTLY, LITERALLY as it occurred, meaning, he shouldn't have effectively stated that Zero gave the order for sealing him away, that Zero basically went into a vegetative state simply because he got old, or any of that. Same goes for EVA and possibly Ocelot.