Board Thread:General Discussion/@comment-5038094-20140721042428/@comment-1504072-20140906154100

Weedle McHairybug wrote: '''MG2 wasn't exactly bare-bones in its storyline. Heck, it had even more of a solid story than Metal Gear.''' This was more in reference to MG1. But MG2 is pretty sparse compared with MGS1.

Weedle McHairybug wrote: '''Considering the wiki counts manual information as canon info over, you know, stuff like novelizations and the OMH, that's still enough to qualify (not to mention that the manual was actually necessary for MG2 at least, since you literally can't complete the game without it thanks to it being needed for decoding certain radio frequencies that were needed to advance forward in the game, meaning the backstories were definitely canon.). And it was more than just the NATO=>U.S. Army change: Big Boss wasn't even considered the founder of FOXHOUND in MG2, just the nominated commander. It wasn't until MGS1 that Big Boss actually was considered the founder, and even the time period it was founded in was altered, as both MG2 and even MGS1 made clear it was founded in the 1990s, with the latter specifying that the Gulf War was responsible for its founding. In MGS3, it was founded two decades earlier, and for a different reason as well.''' What is onscreen, in-game, is what is important to the story. What the Wiki uses as canon is irrelevant as we have no relation to Kojima Productions. The old manuals were largely expunged of all the backstory information when they were rewritten for the HD re-releases.

Weedle McHairybug wrote: Except they should have actually addressed that it failed or at least abandoned due to being too costly to maintain in the games, even the manual if needs be. They are not obligated to do any such thing. Think for yourself.

Weedle McHairybug wrote: Except Solid Snake explicitly stated he stopped having the nightmares and PTSD relating to Metal Gear 2, meaning he did in fact change in the ending (heck, curing it was the reason he even participated in the events of Zanzibar Land in the first place). And it wouldn't be instantaneous either, as he already stated that he had nightmares for three years (technically four, but still...). And my point with bringing it up was because I've seen a lot of detractors comment that Big Boss's regression in PW meant MPO couldn't be canon, yet they ignored that regression between MG2 and MGS. It's no more a valid reason for MG2 being non-canon than it is for MPO being non-canon.

Weedle McHairybug wrote: A lot of people complained about Gray Fox's change in backstory, and considering Gray Fox's actions are covered in the MGS4 database, that at least is still canon. And considering one of the controversial aspects of Portable Ops IS how Gray Fox was characterized, that's a pretty huge alteration. And as far as Miller, I was actually referring to his backstory from MG2 (you know, the bit about being born about sixty years after migrating to Japan), not simply his turning against Big Boss (That doesn't need much elaboration, unless the Phantom Pain decides to have him stick with Big Boss up to Zanzibar Land). And if Ground Zeroes' deja vu mission is anything to go by, they may have even fully retconned his name. Again, onscreen, in-game information is what is relevant to the story in the end.

Weedle McHairybug wrote: Okay, the games, even Metal Gear Solid 4, made very clear that no one, not even Zero (EVA even mentioned he formed the AI system precisely because of the sting of betrayal he felt when he learned Big Boss betrayed him), knew that Big Boss was the leader of Outer Heaven. This was conflicted with three games, including The Phantom Pain:''' I couldn't care less about how many spy agencies Zero has links to. That doesn't make him omniscient. Who said Zero personally appointed Big Boss as FOXHOUND commander? Who's to say Big Boss didn't successfully conceal his command of FOXHOUND from Zero? The answer is nobody did. Sure, it's interesting to speculate how events came to be, but I don't obsess over having to know every detail. The pieces of the puzzle may not appear to fit perfectly together, but this so-called "contradiction" is a purely subjective matter.
 * In the ending for Peace Walker, it was revealed that, at the very least, the Patriots had control over the NSA, NRO, DIA, and CSS branches of the United States, and that's not even getting into their having some degree of control over the CIA and the KGB as well, even if indirect thanks largely to Paz. Heck, he even had Paz attempt to launch a nuke at the East Coast in an attempt to force Big Boss to join.
 * Then we get into Ground Zeroes, and it reveals that Cipher had some influence over the UN and the IAEA, plus the Marines at the US Naval prison facility in Cuba the ending even implied that it may have even subjected the US and its allies to a huge scandal relating to MSF's ties to them simply to take them out. And that's just in the main story. If the Side Ops are to be considered canon, they also had some degree of control over the MI6, BND, ISI, and at least one Soviet intelligence agency. Probably the only group they didn't have control over yet was the Joint Chiefs of Staff.
 * Then with the Phantom Pain, both Ocelot and Ishmael referred to Big Boss as a wanted man that the entire world "wanted [him] dead," and considering the latter said this when the hospital Snake was staying at was being attacked by a military force that was obviously after Big Boss's head, it's unlikely they were engaging in hyperbole. Even if we are to agree that Big Boss somehow managed to clear his name of all charges, that still doesn't explain how ZERO would not see it coming that Big Boss would lead Outer Heaven, especially when he had control over a large bit of various agencies and groups across the globe even back then, to say little of the influence they would later have in the 1990s and 2000s. Not to mention, considering the Patriots' treatment of The Boss (despite being formed to promote her philosophy) and heck, how they treated Solid Snake and Otacon (and that was one of their clones of Big Boss), even Dead Cell, it's extremely unlikely the Patriots, especially Zero, would simply "forgive" Big Boss of him going against them. That's what I'm getting at. Peace Walker really messed up in that regard.