Board Thread:General Discussion/@comment-5085906-20130627191357/@comment-6747658-20150515094134

And another 30 minutes down, still so much idiocy, their theories are so convoluted and full of things that are easily debunked that it isn't even funny anymore. In any case, here's what I typed up during that following half hour. I'll watch the last 40 minutes later today probably, but my god I haven't facepalmed so much over one video.

The next part comes in about the whole "Neither enemy, nor friend." First showing Drebin, then Miller, then Olga and claiming that they are all three agents of the Patriots, this is false. Drebin and Olga were agenst of the Patriots yes, though they were also basically forced into that position. Drebin being picked up as a war orphan and Olga due to the Patriots holding Sunny hostage. Kaz however, was not explicetely shown as an agent of the Patriots, only that he was a business partner with Zero, that doesn't make him an Agent, that just means he has connections. And considering he was quite attached to Mother Base, which he also believes that Zero allowed the attack on it and blew it up, along with the fact that he lost an arm and a foot, that's pretty hard to swallow that he would still be connected to Zero in any form, he is out for revenge and that has been clearly shown in what we have seen so far with the shown TPP cutscenes.

He goes on how Gray Fox, whom also used the line (by now he is linking that the 'neither enemy, nor friend' line is Patriot Agent exclusive) could also have been an agent for the Patriots, albeit unknowingly like Solid and Raiden. This is of course possible, however, GF killed Dr. Clarke, whom we know was Para-Medic and a member of the Patriots, so that kind of throws that possibility out of the window, because why would the Patriots allow one of their forming members to be killed? He also goes about on how GF tells Solid "I am like you, I have no name." and how it possibly implies that GF knew he was a pawn like Solid. This isn't true either, GF's comment of having no name like Solid is more so a reference to them both haing gone by their codenames. Neither Solid nor GF go by their original names and Solid only tells his name during the end of MGS.

He also shows a comment of Liquid, 'You've lost your warrior's pride and become nothing more then a pawn Snake." to further imply his theory, but completely forgets that Liquid used Solid as his pawn by having him run around with that keycard in order to activate Rex, so that doesn't help his theory at all. That alongside the fact that Liquid knew about Snake being a pawn of the government so to spread the Foxdie, in fact it's implied that Liquid never really knew about the Patriots considering he's more so talking about the US government rather then some secret organisation.

More fluff, but ultimately Python is implying that GF was a former pawn of the Patriots due to how the Shadow Moses incident was scripted except for GF's appearance, much like Solid's appearance during the Big Shell incident. While this is certainly possible, the main point forgotten here, is that during the creation of MGS1, the Patriots weren't even a thing, they were only created as a role in MGS2, which by now we know, Kojima never planned a sequel to MGS until much later and even then the Patriots were used as a cliffhanger material. It is unlikely that this was all planned already during MGS1, so while it could be retro-actively implied through retcons and whatnot, so far we know, this is simply not the case and GF only became a test subject for the cyborg project after the recovery of his body, there is nothing to imply that he was a pawn of the Patriots before or after his near death encounter with Solid in that minefield.

He also goes to imply that GF left behind the bandana and snowmobile, which is just pure assumption. The bandana was just a means to give the player a bonus item, much like how Otacon gives his stealth unit in the non-canon ending. As for the snowmobile, well it just happened to be there, it is a base in a snowfilled land, snowmobiles should be a common sight there. There is nothing there to imply that they were purposely left behind by GF, whom wouldn't even know that Solid and Meryl would even encounter the snowmobile at all considering there's multiple exits out of the base. So he would have planted a snowmobile with bandana at every possible exit? Yeah right, and I'm the pope.

He then goes on to lay the link that Raiden rescued sunny before becoming a Cyborg and that GF rescued Naomi before becoming a cyborg and that both were child soldiers, as well as that Raiden was used by the Patriots to become a new "Snake" and thus they suspect that the same happened to GF. This is a big effing stretch, first of all, Raiden helped rescue Sunny with the help of Big Mama and her army, later he wandered around before then afterwards, trying to retrieve BB's body which led to his capture and subsequent change into a cyborg.

GF however, Frank killed Naomi's parents and when discovering Naomi, couldn't bring it to himself to kill her so he took her in instead, that's not rescueing her, that's taking pity on her. Not to mention that he didn't became a cyborg till LONG after that event after he was left for dead with his fatal battle with Solid. Unlike Raiden whom was captured and forcefully changed, Frank was pretty much already dead when they turned him into a Cyborg. Not to mention that nothing, and I do mean absolutely nothing, implies that Frank was being used to become a new Snake, hell it doesn't even fit into what we already about GF whom fought wars in Africa, ended up joining BB and sticking with BB during the events at the end of MG and during MG2 which led to his appearant demise.

And so we go into the "Cypher files" and they explain that Chico's earphones being plugged into his chest is similar to how Mantises have a single ear deep within their thorax/chest. Alongside is a picture of Psycho Mantis who happens to have link where all those body straps of his link into on his chest. That's all fine and all, but how on earth do you place a link to  Chico having a hole in his chest to plug earbuds in, relate to mantises having an ear within their chest? I'm sorry but that just doesn't make sense to me.

He also brings up that he is not saying Chico is Mantis because they have completely different backgrounds and talks about PM's background how he burned his village and intended to kill his father, and also goes to say that it was never confirmed that PM's father was dead. No perhaps not, but considering the whole village was in flames, it's pretty heavily implied that PM's father died. And again, how does this link to Chico? And if he's claiming Chico is not Mantis, which is obvious, why bring it up at all? And he does bring it up, first showing a bit of the MGS comic that isn't canon (Where PM uses his psychic powers on Snake and makes him believe Master Miller barges in and helps Snake) and then hammering down on that one line of Kaz again in GZ about him apparently believing Paz's cover story, he thus concludes that GZ, because of Chico having an earphone plug in his chest, and Kaz's comment, that it is thus possibly PM messing with us in GZ.

Again, big effing stretch. We only see Child Mantis in TPP (while unconfirmed, it's pretty obvious the kid is Mantis) which takes place 9 years after GZ, Mantis likely was either an infant or not even born yet during the time of GZ depending on his age. So how could he possibly be even involved during the events of GZ unless this whole deal takes place long after GZ and TPP, which again, is a big effing stretch and very unlikely.