Board Thread:General Discussion/@comment-6512-20150911195557/@comment-3116033-20151006095756

138.51.255.87 wrote: The 2nd travel of the Titanic wrote:

I heard too much people saying that PO is non-canon just because Kojima didn't write it himself or because was not included in the Legacy Collection. What kind of evidence is that? It's like saying that Solidus is not a clone of Big Boss because he lost the left eye instead of the right one, or that Liquid is a clone of Miller as they both have blond hair. It makes no sense no matter you see it. In a discussion are used elements, not speculations or just random personal thoughs, because no matter how much we could want one thing to go in a precise way, it will not. So I'm going to bring something that has been said over and over, but apparently is still necessary.

Kojima himself said that the "core" of PO is canon (however he admitted that some informations given by the game contradicts the rest of the series, thus the "core" only he consider it canon). Also, it's present in the same timeline as the canon series (unlike Snake's Revenge, Ghost Babel, the two Acid and Mobile, with openly contradicts the events of the canon timeline, thus comes the "non-canon" definition; just think that GB sets in 2002 and ignores the events of MG2, or Acid and Acid 2 that contradict pretty much everything established about the LET project etc.), and its events are mentioned in MGS3 (although indirectly, in the ending timeline), MGS4, PW and TPP. Plus, Gene's ideology of "Army's Heaven" had a huge part in the inspiration of both the concepts of Outer Heaven and The Patriots. The fact that the events in PO are not referred to all the time like other titled tied-in (eg. MGS references MG2 all the time, MGS2 does the same with MGS, PW with MGS3 and GZ/TPP wth PW) does not mean the game itself is out of canon. There is actualy plenty of evidence that Portable Ops is not canon. Thankfully this information has been compiled and posted on the talk page, so I will just link it here and summarise, rather than repost it entirely. Konami released a timeline that contained only the Core8 games (which excludes MPO and Rising). Kojima also gave an interview where he said that only the Core8 games are a part of the "single Metal Gear saga" of games. This interview was given earlier this year and thus is the most up to date opinion on the topic. Therefore the old interview where he mentioned PoOps is old outdated information and is disregarded. Also in the Ground Zeroes Deja Vu mission there are logos for all the games ever made in the series. Only the Core8 game logos can be erased and will be mentioned by Kaz. All others will be made fun of by Kaz, and he'll say stuff like "Metal Gear something something" and "I don't remember that one.". Lastly, the MGSV guidebook has a detailed timeline of all canon events written by Kojima and Konami. The timeline leaves out MGR and PoOps entirely, even  though there is an entire page dedicated to the early 1970s, there isn't even the slightest mention of MPO or the San Hieronymo Incident. There are hi-res image uploads of those pages found on the talk page.

PoOps is only mentioned in games as a joke. As I said GZ references it by having its logo, but Kaz says that the game is non canon. Also its incredibly lame to say that Big Boss got his idea for Outer Heaven from someone else. I'm glad that the game has since been retconned out of canon and now we know that Big Boss came up with the idea for it himself, rather than stealing it lamely from someone else.

You're right when you say that personal opinions can't change whether or not PoOps is canon, thankfully both Kojima and Konami have agreed that the game is no longer considered part of the canon timeline which simplifies the situation greatly.

I see your point, but as other users said, "canon" and "spin-off" are not the same thing, as a spin-off can fit in the timeline without problems and keeps its place as canon (as a minor title, but still); a true "non-canon" title instead is in open contradiction to the main series. Take for example Ghost Babel again: it poses an alternate sequel to MG1, completely ignoring the events of MG2 as they never happened (and actually even "retcon" on its way half of MG1, but being opely contradictory to the first game we can say it "retcons" on its alternate timeline). Mobile doesn't contradict the main series, as is just a Solid imprisoned inside a VR-world, but is safe to say it's non-canon as its events don't match with the chronological sequels (Mobile is said to take place in the earliest days of Philatrophy, thus at some point in 2006). Ac!d and Ac!d 2 too are considered non-canon as they both openly contradicts several points of the main series: the non-existent accelerated aging process of the LET subjects (mentioned already in MGS2, as Ocelot mentions that Solid is getting old really fast, while in Ac!d is an even younger look espite taking place in 2016, two years after mgs4, where he was aged already enough to feel and look over 90 while being 42), the world set, the total inexistence of The Patriots (even opering in shadow), the fact of Solid being cloned himself (Ac!d 2 came out after mgs3, where is stated Big Boss is sterile and could not have kids and in the optional calls with Para-Medic about cloning is said the hint of his clones not being able to be cloned themselves), even his backstory is different (no Outer Heaven, no Zanzibar Land, no Big Boss, no LET project, in fact in Ac!d Solid is not a clone at all lol).

This kind of contradictions make those games "non-canon", other than spin-off (which just means that are out of the main saga, the two things don't come always togheter). PO is yes out of the "core saga" and thus is a spin-off, but this doesn't necessarily mean its also out of canon. Its events are just not that important (at least indirectly; is important for example because shows how Zero managed to retrieve the Philosopher's Legacy and use it to form the Patriots, or because shows that by 1971 FOXHOUND was already turned into an official Government unit and Big Boss was asked to led it, same unit that will lead again the 90s, Outer Heaven, bla bla bla).

Anyway, as Fantomas already told you in other discussions, you're a bit overacting. Basically this prevent any discussion (which should have an end at some point, it's almost ten years that this topic keeps spreading, but should end for an agreement, not a shut door).