Board Thread:General Discussion/@comment-5038094-20140721042428/@comment-1672596-20140906155349

Bluerock wrote: Weedle McHairybug wrote: Except they should have actually addressed that it failed or at least abandoned due to being too costly to maintain in the games, even the manual if needs be. They are not obligated to do any such thing. Think for yourself.

'''I do think for myself, yet it's pointless because my personal thoughts on how the series should go about means absolutely nothing with what's shown in the very end. Creator's word trumps my own or your own or anyone elses. Only way your words or my words even matter is if we are running the franchise, not Kojima. For example, I by thinking for myself could conclude Raikov wasn't actually gay but terrified of Volgin to such an extent he isn't willing to even sleep with EVA out of fear of being beaten up for cheating, yet the game makes very clear that what I think ISN'T the case at all. If thinking for myself actually MEANT anything to the story, I would have been the one calling the shots at Kojima Productions, not Kojima and the others.'''

Weedle McHairybug wrote: A lot of people complained about Gray Fox's change in backstory, and considering Gray Fox's actions are covered in the MGS4 database, that at least is still canon. And considering one of the controversial aspects of Portable Ops IS how Gray Fox was characterized, that's a pretty huge alteration. And as far as Miller, I was actually referring to his backstory from MG2 (you know, the bit about being born about sixty years after migrating to Japan), not simply his turning against Big Boss (That doesn't need much elaboration, unless the Phantom Pain decides to have him stick with Big Boss up to Zanzibar Land). And if Ground Zeroes' deja vu mission is anything to go by, they may have even fully retconned his name. Again, onscreen, in-game information is what is relevant to the story in the end.

And the bit about Gray Fox and, heck, even Master's Miller's name was onscreen, in-game information (Liquid specifically identified himself as "McDonnell Miller", not "Kazuhira Miller" in MGS1 and even the flashback in MGS4, yet in Ground Zeroes' deja vu mission, Miller called in if using the vents specifically identifying himself by the latter name, not the former).

Weedle McHairybug wrote: Okay, the games, even Metal Gear Solid 4, made very clear that no one, not even Zero (EVA even mentioned he formed the AI system precisely because of the sting of betrayal he felt when he learned Big Boss betrayed him), knew that Big Boss was the leader of Outer Heaven. This was conflicted with three games, including The Phantom Pain:''' I couldn't care less about how many spy agencies Zero has links to. That doesn't make him omniscient. Who said Zero personally appointed Big Boss as FOXHOUND commander? Who's to say Big Boss didn't successfully conceal his command of FOXHOUND from Zero? The answer is nobody did. Sure, it's interesting to speculate how events came to be, but I don't obsess over having to know every detail. The pieces of the puzzle may not appear to fit perfectly together, but this so-called "contradiction" is a purely subjective matter.
 * In the ending for Peace Walker, it was revealed that, at the very least, the Patriots had control over the NSA, NRO, DIA, and CSS branches of the United States, and that's not even getting into their having some degree of control over the CIA and the KGB as well, even if indirect thanks largely to Paz. Heck, he even had Paz attempt to launch a nuke at the East Coast in an attempt to force Big Boss to join.
 * Then we get into Ground Zeroes, and it reveals that Cipher had some influence over the UN and the IAEA, plus the Marines at the US Naval prison facility in Cuba the ending even implied that it may have even subjected the US and its allies to a huge scandal relating to MSF's ties to them simply to take them out. And that's just in the main story. If the Side Ops are to be considered canon, they also had some degree of control over the MI6, BND, ISI, and at least one Soviet intelligence agency. Probably the only group they didn't have control over yet was the Joint Chiefs of Staff.
 * Then with the Phantom Pain, both Ocelot and Ishmael referred to Big Boss as a wanted man that the entire world "wanted [him] dead," and considering the latter said this when the hospital Snake was staying at was being attacked by a military force that was obviously after Big Boss's head, it's unlikely they were engaging in hyperbole. Even if we are to agree that Big Boss somehow managed to clear his name of all charges, that still doesn't explain how ZERO would not see it coming that Big Boss would lead Outer Heaven, especially when he had control over a large bit of various agencies and groups across the globe even back then, to say little of the influence they would later have in the 1990s and 2000s. Not to mention, considering the Patriots' treatment of The Boss (despite being formed to promote her philosophy) and heck, how they treated Solid Snake and Otacon (and that was one of their clones of Big Boss), even Dead Cell, it's extremely unlikely the Patriots, especially Zero, would simply "forgive" Big Boss of him going against them. That's what I'm getting at. Peace Walker really messed up in that regard.

'''It did make the Patriots omniscient, or at least very close to it if we go by the end speech for MGS2, and considering Big Mama explicitly stated that Zero formed the AIs specifically because of Big Boss's betrayal and wars in the 1990s, that's still an issue, not to mention Big Boss covertly regained command of FOXHOUND, Big Mama explicitly made that clear. And besides, whether it actually made him omniscient or not, it would have made Zero out to be incredibly stupid to Homer Simpson levels for even believing Big Boss repented or saw things his way, especially given his paranoid nature in GZ and how effectively the Patriots ran for several decades without anyone being aware, and with little to no opposition even from Big Boss.'''