Board Thread:General Discussion/@comment-179.197.35.147-20140929015719/@comment-1672596-20151101201224

Jim Logan wrote: 64.33.250.214 wrote: 186.62.50.178 wrote: 64.33.250.214 wrote: 186.62.2.186 wrote: A Gray Fox game would be the worst thing ever and a complete waste of time, another filler game with a bunch of random unimportant mission, Fox never did anything memorable, Raiden stopped a WWIII scenario in Rising at least.

Always saw Fox as nothing more than a one-hit wonder, easily the worst C. Ninja in the series, always getting his ass kicked.

Just give me more Raiden, Bladewolf and Samuel please. Gray Fox had a decent story arch leading up to him becoming Cyborg Ninja. Raiden just shows up in 4 as a ninja to redeem is lack of popularity.

Did nothing memorable? Fox cut off the arm of one of the most important games in the franchise, which shaped the events of MGS2 and MGS4. He took out REX's shield, otherwise Solid wouldn't have been able to do crap about it.

Got his ass kicked? He held his own against Solid in a fist fight, and had the balls to fight Liquid (one of the most OP characters) who was in control of REX.

Raiden stopped WWIII because he had a whole game to do so. Any achievement Fox had, or didn't have, was due to being relegated as a side character. The only thing Fox did across the entire series was getting his ass beat like a clown and killing a bunch of faceless goons, hell his only memorable scene was getting squashed like a bug.

I mean,you want me to compare Raiden killcount and wins across the series against Fox? Jaeger is an overrated scrub compared to Raiden, nothing more nothing less. Even human Raiden took out an army of Rays alone and killed Big Boss perfect clone in a superhuman suit with feats that dwarf Liquid, so yeah, even human Raiden is more impressive.

Fox dont deserve anything outside of being another skin or some extra in someone else game.

Heck, even Samuel Rodriguez in a short 20 minutes DLC already had a more impressive showing compared to MGS's Boba Fett. Do you know the difference between an protagonist and antagonist? Raiden was written to have more wins, because he was the protagonist. If Kojima had made Rising about Gray Fox, we probably wouldn't be having this discussion. Gray Fox has untapped potential as a character, but he was written to be a boss fight.

Gray Fox was only defeated twice. Once by Big Boss in Portable Ops, and once by Solid Snake in MG2. Solid Snake barely held him off in MGS in a fist fight. If Solid had fought him with guns, Fox would've cut him down. His loss to Liquid was more or less a suicide attack. Gray Fox was losing his mind and wanted to die.

Gray Fox fought Liquid, Solid, and Big Boss. He survived all encounters, except for the kamikaze attack on REX. Raiden only fought Solidus. Raiden was captured and tortured twice in MGS2, and Solidus might have killed him had he not chosen to free him for a sword battle. Solidus intervened during the fight with the Rays, who were about to kill Raiden. Raiden lost the fight with Rays, which were controlled by AIs. Gray Fox sacrificed himself in the fight with REX, which was controlled by Liquid. Major differences there.

As Cyborg Ninja, Raiden was nearly killed in his first fight with Vamp in MGS4, and almost died sacrificing himself trying to hold back Outer Haven. It was never explained how he survived that, which is kind of cheap when you think about it.

I have no clue what Raiden did in Rising...

Bluerock wrote: To all the "Fox vs. Raiden" posters, yes, we understand. Some of you don't think one or the other would be part of "the ideal MGSVI for you." So is there anything else, besides cyborg ninjas, that you'd like to see in a future installment? I honestly don't care if there's ever a sequel to Rising or a Gray Fox game. I just think the Raiden fanboys are silly.

I'd like to see a reboot if MGS continues. If Konami wont do that, then at least ignore the events of MGSV and the whole body double nonsense. Uh...

He was defeated by Big Boss twice in Portable Ops

Once by Solid Snake in MG2(punched him onto a land mine)

Once by Solid Snake in MGS1

Got killed by Liquid Actually, he only lost to Big Boss once in Portable Ops, which was the second fight. Yes, you did need to beat him in the first fight, but that's just for gameplay. For the cinematics, it was made pretty clear that Big Boss and Null, if anything, fought to a stalemate. Solid Snake may have beaten him both in MG2 and MGS1 (though the latter's in the gray area, no pun intended). As far as being killed by Liquid, he did at least manage to cripple REX enough to force Liquid to expose himself, so it's not like he did nothing of value in his last stand.

So far as Raiden, he did do some really impressive stuff in MGRR, like taking down Desperado as well as going one-man army against a huge PMC when no one else was willing to directly go against them for various reasons, all to save orphaned children. And for being outmatched against a senator souped up in nanomachines that rivaled even Vamp's, he did very well, actually.

I do agree that with MGSVI, IF there's going to be an MGSVI, they need to retcon the mess that was MGSV.