Board Thread:General Discussion/@comment-86.46.22.35-20130403153709/@comment-64.33.250.214-20140903000102

Jim Logan wrote: Weedle McHairybug wrote: Paranoid Donkey wrote: I thought MGS4 made very clear that Big Boss actually hated his clone progeny so much that he wouldn't even consider them his sons or even heirs to his will. Not to mention Liquid's statements to Solid Snake indicated that, assuming they even met, Big Boss actually was disgusted with his being "weak." Weedle's right here. At best, Big Boss would probably just see Eli as a means to an end. An extra set of hands to fire a gun. Nothing more. You guys are both right. It's as Big Boss says to Solid Snake; "I never thought of you as a son, but I always respected you as a soldier".

To me, it doesn't seem like Boss truly hates his clones. What I gather is he hated the manipulative nature of the LET project and how it was conducted without his consent. He is ashamed of them and himself for the way in which they were conceived, but not necessarily ashamed that they exist. It's sort of like having a girlfriend skip the pill, get pregnant, and without any consent give birth. You may feel betrayal, but you might also learn to care for that child in the process.

At the end of MGS4, Big Boss does call Solid Snake his son. Perhaps he'd even said it before. In the original US version of MGS1, Solid says there was a man who called himself Solid's father. Whether that was a liberty taken by the American localization team, I do not know. But it was fitting, and perhaps Boss saying "let it go my son" was a call back.

In either case, there are implications that Boss didn't completely hate his clones. More than anything he may have feared their potential as a threat to the world and to everything Diamond Dogs strived towards.

Paranoid Donkey wrote: I can't remember enough of MGS2's story to recount Solidus' involvement in The Patriots, however this could also explain why Ishmael vanishes after the crash--to avoid Ocelot and therefore avoid causing some sort of internal issue. Maybe someone else can help me flesh that one out, for the sake of a good discussion rather than to prove it true.

Ocelot and Solidus both worked for the Patriots, and were both working against the Patriots. Ocelot would know about Solidus before anyone else. There doesn't seem to be any real animosity between the two in MGS2. Ocelot betrays Solidus only because he has his own plan to end The Patriot's control. It's an act of disinvolvement rather than a personal feud. He probably sensed that Solidus would fail in his mission. Knowing that The Patriot's set up Solidus and Raiden to simulate the battle of Boss and Solid.

If Solidus were in Phantom Pain, the two could be working together. Specifically to ensure Boss's rescue. As Ishmael he may disappear once Ocelot steps in, so as not to jeopardize his identity by remaining in Boss's presence. It'd look sketchy if Ishmael followed Boss to Mother Base with bandages still on. Someone would eventually ask him to take them off.

Paranoid Donkey wrote: I haven't been converted by any stretch, but I like the theory. I'm still of the mind that Ishmael is a hallucination myself. Some sort of Dissociative Identity Disorder or something perhaps--but that's not as fun to discuss, is it?

I agree totally. The logistics of accelerated aging poses a problem for the "Ishmael is Solidus" theory, but otherwise there are enough clues to place it within the realm of plausibility. Although I didn't create this theory, I thought keeping it afloat might at the very least keep things interesting until the game's release. Since the "Quiet is Chico" theory has pretty much been debunked, the forum was becoming too focused on the body double/hallucination theories.