Board Thread:General Discussion/@comment-1672596-20130326171333/@comment-1672596-20130905154713

Bluerock wrote:

Weedle McHairybug wrote: Sigh, the United States was not imperialist during the Cold War. If we were, Nicaragua, France, GB, West Germany, Spain and all those countries we were allied to (ie, Western Europe) or otherwise neutral to (any of the Central and Southern American countries among others) would have our own forces in that country and more importantly, they'd be singing our National Anthem instead of their national anthem as well as speaking our primary language instead of their own, heck, even forgetting their own history by that point (You know, like how the Roman Empire or the British Empire handled things, and certainly how the so-called anti-imperialistic Soviet Union handled things). That is taking a very simplistic attitude of what "imperialism" is, especially in the modern sense; the empires of old are a very different beast. America (capitalism) and the USSR (communism) both pushed their ideologies on other countries via underhanded tactics during the Cold War. It's about exerting control and increasing influence, not physically occupying land.

Weedle McHairybug wrote: Its not even close to the same as Big Boss, who at least did actually try to stop the Patriots as well as Communism. Big Boss tried to replace the Patriots with Outer Heaven. Did everyone just forget about Zanzibarland's nuclear terrorism and invasion of neighboring countries? Didn't Che say he'd use nukes if he had them? The hero worship of "terrorist" leader Big Boss since MGS3/4 mirrors that of Che. The parallels seem quite obvious.

Anyway, this topic has been answered. Kaz and MSF are guerrilla fighters in the same vein as Che. That's it. They fight in similar circumstances and for similar reasons, but that does not mean they share the same objectives or hold the same personal viewpoints, at least not that has been seen in Peace Walker. Maybe Kaz too becomes a "monster" when he succumbs to his desire for revenge in The Phantom Pain, but he certainly didn't admire Che for these qualities, and there's no evidence to suggest otherwise. Regarding the Empire thing, that's why I made sure to note the changes in language and ensuring the occupied countries forgot their previous history, to make clear that it's not just occupying land, but also changing the culture. Also, if the modern definition of imperialism is simply imposing on people, that would make literally everything and everyone imperialistic, even parenthood (since parents always impose things on children) and ironically enough individualism, which is really silly if you think about it. Heck, Philanthropy's actions in getting rid of Metal Gear are technically imperialistic if we use the modern definition. Heck, The Boss herself would qualify as an imperialist just by telling Naked Snake her ideals. Besides, France and those other countries in Western Europe still retained their culture, even that of that despicable madman Rousseau's beliefs in France, even though we most certainly could have just forced France to follow Locke's philosophy.

As far as the other comment, IF Big Boss either called the White House/UN building in New York (like his son Liquid Snake did, or if we go beyond canon, what Augustine Eguabon and Dr. Koppelthorne attempted to do) or otherwise shot a nuclear weapon at a country, whether their own or at another country (like what Volgin did, or what Gene and Coldman/Zadornov/Paz attempted to do), heck, even both, then yes, he certainly would have been using nuclear terrorism. However, MG2 did not have Big Boss using Metal Gear to launch nukes at all (don't you think they would have made sure to mention that, even make a big deal about it, if he did), and it's not like Metal Gear D was incomplete, it was, with their even making a fairly big deal out of Metal Gear D being completed. Ironically, the one time he actually had the opportunity to act like Che Guevara (that incident you and I both mentioned during the Cuban Missile Crisis regarding what he'd say he'd do with the nukes had they remained), he not only refused to use them, he actually damaged ZEKE just to prevent Paz from doing that sort of thing (remember Chapter 5? If he were such a big fanboy of Che, why didn't he emulate that kind of behavior, shocking even Paz?). Not to mention, MGS effectively retconned the only real hint at his engaging in nuclear terrorism (which is stealing nuclear stockpiles in Zanzibar Land) in their Previous Operations on that game, and instead implied that Zanzibar Land had a nuclear development program. Actually, the Patriots actually came far closer to genuine nuclear terrorism than Big Boss ever did just by developing REX, seeing how that had a rail gun that could launch nuclear weapons untraceably (honestly, what exactly did you think the Patriots were planning when they created that railgun and stealth nuke system for REX, do a bake sale?), not to mention their being implied to have been responsible for the leaking of REX's schematics to other countries.

And anyways, there was an interview where Kojima mentioned that he decided to implement Che Guevara literally because of the 2008 biopic on him (now that I have two confirmations on that interview occurring and from two completely different people. Hope that user gives me the link soon). I don't think when he was making Metal Gear Solid 4, Che was even in Kojima's mind when explaining the hero worship of Big Boss.