Board Thread:General Discussion/@comment-5085906-20130627191357/@comment-6747658-20130701065503

78.133.44.50 wrote: Sorry but YoungYea is no one to debunk the theory... Do you actually believe that the third man behind the camera next to Big Boss is actually Hideo Kojima? Like Yong said in his counter video? Please... as if everything which Kojima says is true in the end... It's like the guy is not used to Kojima AT ALL.

If you watch their new re-counter analysis video you can clearly see that Yong failed with providing evidence that the Snake in the trailer is the Real Big Boss, and still didn't provide enough evidence why he thinks that he's not Gray Fox, not to mention that in their re-counter analysis video they pointed out several good reasons as to why it can still be Gray Fox, or a body double, and that some things have to be carefully analaysed.

All the events (with dates) they mentioned coincide with all the facts from the games...

My point is that their theory is still very much possible.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mjQSgz3QQwI Oh please, the counter arguments they provide are hardly that many good reasons and ended up into a literal fanwank theory. Besides, several points are wrong and can be re-debunked.

The video first touches up on Gray Fox being the one whom's perspective we see. The comment that Gray Fox was rescued by Big Boss in the 1970's is true, however MFS did not exist back then and Big Boss was still part of Fox, soon to create the Patriots with several others. So it is rather unsure that Gray Fox was with Big Boss since then, and were that the case then we would have seen Gray Fox in Peace Walker because it's known that he is one of Kojima's more favorite characters.

He then touches on the "third person is Kojima." it is of course completely possible that Kojima was joking about it, it is however also completely possible that this scene was purely made for the trailer to mislead people, and Kojima was recruitable in Peace Walker. Further more he references to the bandaged mask that Kojima wears and questions the coinsidence, no doubt referring to Ishmael. The mask was used to present himself as Joakim Mogren, so called CEO of Moby Dick Studios, aside from the bandages it has nothing to do with Ishmael.

What follows next is the head similarity, why this head is even used is still beyond me because so far we know Gray Fox never had any major scars and honestly, it looks nothing like Gray Fox, or Big Boss for that matter. And if Gray Fox supposedly used plastic surgery, then why on earth would he keep that scar or have debris sticking out of his head? That is not at all needed to be a body double of Big Boss. And saying that because it is a W.I.P and thus it hides detals is really a weak counter-argument.

Furthermore, he uses Gray Fox's picture out of the original MG2, which used character appearances based on real life actors (such as Big Boss looking like Sean Connery), this has long since been changed in every other version of the game and those pictures are not considered canon anymore, where as the new pictures are. As such, Gray Fox has gray/white hair and not brown.

He then goes on about Gray Fox's eye color, now claiming they are gray through artificial means when he's the Cyborg Ninja, but what he clearly forgets is that Gray Fox has been depicted with gray eyes already in the updated picture of MG2 and in Portable Ops, so YongYea's comment that the eyecolor looks different due to lighting is completely correct, because eyecolor can look different with different lighting. And he was also fully correct that Gray Fox's eyes are gray.

The Ponytail argument follows, and what Yong says is completely logical, pulling your hair back in a ponytail is a good way to counter heat, but aside from that fact. It is completely possible that Big Boss just fancies a ponytail, the man's hairstyle changes several times over the years, it's not completely unthinkable that he would wear a ponytail. Also it does nothing to confirm the body double theory either, because why would Gray Fox wear it in a ponytail if he is supposed to look exactly like Big Boss?

He goes on to mention about the trailer and that Big Boss is depicted in two different scenes right after each other, claiming that such is not normal in trailers unless their are different people. This part he's just really grasping at straws, it is a trailer, just because we see Big Boss in two different scenes right after each other means absolutely nothing and it really isn't that unusual as it clearly depicts character chance. Which we see here too as we see a defeated Big Boss first, and then a more determined one.

Next comes the argument that cannot be Gray Fox cause Gray Fox still had his arm and eye. Indeed a Body Double theory would mean the character has to look exactly like the one he is imitating, so wearing an eyepatch over a functional eye isn't unlikely. However, you can't seriously believe they disguised his actual arm to look like a prostethich, if that was the case the arm, hand and fingers would all have been larger/thinker then what we see right now. So unless Gray Fox got his arm cut off and replaced with that prosthetic, it's not possible. Also plastic surgery doesn't work that way either, you cannot make yourself look like someone and then have it all changed back to look how you normally did. That would honestly only ruin your face (ala Decoy Octopus)

He follows up by pointing out Big Boss' scars, this is again grasping at straws. We already know Kojima's retconning quite a few things at this point, Big Boss' appearance included so it is not unlike that Big Boss is given scars here that were not there previously, not to mention that scaring fades away overtime depending on how big they are making you only see faint scars that were once there.

The Solid Eye follows next and....this counter-argument is just weak, first of all he completely neglects the comment that the so-called "turning it on" was debunked as it is just really Big Boss leaning on something. Secondly the advanced technology he proceeds to show from Ground Zeroes is a rather large device, unlike the Solid Eye that's considerably smaller 2 decades later, so it is not at all unthinkable that it would be impossible to fit technology of 2 decades later into a very thin eyepatch. He ends up showing a picture of something similar, but again that is about 2 decades later and even that device is clearly shown to not fit fully in just the eye cover. Also on the note of the see throug image, there's no sigh of metalic parts on it, it's just an eyepatch, which you can see more clearly on the actual imaged then his zoomed in one.

I'll give him a point for not confusing a truck as binoculars, but that really does not prove anything in his point, and we've never seen binoculars during gameplay, only in cutscenes. How Big Boss goes into binocular mode fully mimcs how we used to go into binocular mode in previous games.

I'll give him another point for the name thing about Big Boss, however as we have learned in Peace Walker which follows Portable Ops, it's not unlike Kojima to be an ass and say we play as a Snake and not as a Boss. Furthermore in every installment of Metal Gear we've played as Snake, even Raiden's first codename was Snake. That we are playing as Punished Snake fits the general theme of the player character being Snake, and aside from that. We know it is Big Boss either way.

The shrapnel/scar comparison is just silly, not to mention that it is yet again a play of lighting. The left image we see a darker debris piece, we also see the light is coming from above (the sun) which would mean that from the view point we have, the debris would indeed look darker. The right image shows light coming from before him, fully illuminating his face and the debris which is naturally lighter due to light being cast on it from a different angle. Also...I fail to see any stitches in either picture.

He then goes on about the electronic sigar and how Big Boss declined such in Peace Walker, by this point in time Snake is about 49/50, being a heavy smoker it no doubt has had effects on his physique, it's not unlikely to think that after waking from his coma that he would stick to a healthier method of smoking so to still be able to do missions, unlike Solid Snake where we clearly see how his continued smoking only further degraded his declining health. Aside from that, we don't know if Gray Fox ever smoked, but to go with the body double theory why would he then smoke fakes where as Big Boss had been shown to favor real sigars?

But what comes last is probably the worst, Vapor Snake. It is true that Gas goes with the trend of Liquid and Solid, but we already had Solidus which means neither liquid or solid, aka gas. Not to mention that this is just completely and utter fanwank, there is nothing, absolutely nothing to suggest that there is another Snake that impersonates Big Boss nor does it make any sense at all, For all the "seriousness" he has shown he completely blows it away with something riduculous as this.

Also, coming down on the part of a "True Analyst" that's just stupid, it's basically saying "I am holier then thou" And a "true analyst" would never come up with such a ridiculous theory as Vapor Snake which is something that sounds like it comes from a crappy fanfiction made be a 14 year old.

Whew....long post is long, anyways. His counter-argument can be debunked just as his original analysis was debunked