Talk:Les Enfants Terribles

The recessive/dominant argument in this topic is incorrect... Neither are recessive or dominant. They were only trying to isolate the soldier gene in one clone, so they had to have one without those genes to compare it to in order to identify where the soldier gene lies. Solid was the one without the soldier gene. This is all they meant by 'superior' and 'inferior'. Solid Snake's battle experience was far greater than what a gene could offer, on the otherhand.

look up positional cloning for more info on how this works.

 Man, I've been away from this site for too long! You should just go ahead and edit the article to reflect this, although I'm still not certain myself. I always figured they allready knew were the soldier gene was, and they gave Solid the recessive elements of the genes, and Liquid the dominant ones, as a test for the gene therapy experiments which resulted in the creation of the GENOME Army. But for now, I'll just take your word for it.--Fantomas 11:51, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

I think the problem is because Liquid didn't know who had the superior genes in the game theres been a lot of confusion and so these articles (LETs, sold snake ,liquid snake) keep getting switched from one point of view to the other. It would be great if someone did some research into this so it can be settled once and or all. --Drawde83 22:21, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

I would love to express the fact that Solid snakes genes are considered by most in real life scientist dominate "superior" genes with brown/black curly hair and brown eyes which are considered naturally dominate genes. Not to mention Solid's voice pattern and build along with his natural fighting style almost mimic his father's. Even thought the CQC Solid uses is the same one only the boss and big boss knew and used is something not taught by foxhound or else I think Liquid would have a style that mimic Solid's during the final fight of MGS1/TS. I would consider having all those things listed above would make you the better half of your fathers son anyway it even costed big boss an eye for having blue eyes if you remembered correctly Gas Snake 19:57, 7 July 2007 (UTC)

Solidus is not a clone?
Could Eva be the birth mother of Solidus snake even thought she disappeared in 68, 4 years before the project? I would like to stress this fact for the simple reasons he is physically appearance is older then his brothers and he was once U.S. president during the time of Shadow Moses to be right on the dot and one of the modern requirement(since before the 60's even) to become US president that you at least 35 years old meaning he couldn't have possibly been president if he was part of the project because the project was in 72 and Shadow Moses happened in 2005. That's only 33 years, two shy of presidential requirement....so yeah I stated my point want ya'll to think about it Gas Snake 19:57, 7 July 2007 (UTC)


 * As it stands there is no proof that Solidus wasn't a part of Les Enfants Terribles project, and it doesn't seem to make sense that EVA is his mother considering Big Boss was infertile after the nuclear fallout he was exposed to during Bikini Atoll and then again at the end of the Virtuous Mission. In MGS2, Solid Snake was to originally have looked the same age as Solidus, but they wanted Snake to be instantly recognisable, so they made him look similar to how he does in the MGS1 and the opening Tanker Sequence. As for the presidential thing, it's not hard to get around Laws when you have a secret organisation ruling the entire of America/The World, now is it? That and also the fact that the Sons of Big Boss age faster than normal people, it wouldn't be too hard for Solidus to lie about his age, seeing as how he probably looked about 40 during MGS1's time. Sorry, but the facts outweigh your theory on this one. --Fantomas 15:19, 8 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Actually there was no proof that he was made infertile just something assumed by alot of fans even Para medic mentioned in MGS3 that his genes would be a valuable resource in todays wars and mentioned cloning not because he was infertile but because by impregnation your genes get diluted by the others genes but by cloning you can control genes, and he himself said there was nothing wrong with him after being exposed in bikini atoll it's just so theres disproving one fact... fact two why didn't they make him that much older in the TWO YEAR GAP between tanker and plant there alot of things that don't make sense in MGS2 because the Japaneses version explains it while the English is poorly edit(and S*** loads have been cut for 9/11 related stuff)anyway otacon hanging out with a guy in a stealth suit with a mullet makes a pretty good idea that "hey that's solid snake" everybody from laying eyes on him even with his 'Solid eye' in the first MGS4 trailer knew "hey it's solid snake" shooting down point number 2. Presidential thing yes it's true that they control lot of information but they don't control some one age and by United states law your age is verified I think some one out side of the patriots control would have exposed that long before he was kicked out during MGS1 shooting 3 for 3. anyway in MGS1 do you think some one who's been researching the patriots and the Les enfants terribles project would so easily over look he had a third brother that survived that was the current US president I don't think so leading me to believe he is there natural child. Anyway I noticed people call the infertile thing fact when was this MENTIONED in the GAMES and want the screen shot from the scene. I noticed people take Advanced aging thing over the theory Solidus might be BB's actual son by doing it with EVA and I don't remember any MENTION BY A GAME or Hideo kojima or the Kojima productions team officially saying that Snakes old because of cloning syndrome? hand over the proof and I'll be all gravy over it until you do this is my view and I'm not changing it and this must be a statement or screen shot from game mention this by offical konami sources inside the Kojima productions team Gas Snake 03:31, 9 July 2007 (UTC)


 * There’s enough proof that Big Boss was made infertile during either his time at Bikini Atoll and Virtuous Mission… Kojima said so. Kojima mentioned that the fallout “heavily affected Big Boss”. Snake also does hint at his sterile nature in Portable Ops during this scene:

"I've been exposed, too. The tests at Bikini Atoll..."

- Big Boss "I know. Somehow, I could tell."

- Elisa

"Is that why you saved me?"

- Big Boss

"Perhaps. I think I probably wanted to leave some hope for the future. With this body, I'll never be able to have children of my own. So instead, I'm placing my hopes in you."

- Elisa

"Why me?"

- Big Boss

"I just think you'll make a great father someday..."

- Elisa

"Elisa, I'm sorry, but... I'll never be a father."

- Big Boss

Next, I have already explained to you why they didn’t make Snake look older in the two year gap between the Tanker and Plant chapters, and I am not going to repeat myself. And the Japanese version doesn’t explain that much more than the English one does, and the cuts made because of 9/11 didn’t take anything away from the story at all. It is a fact though that they didn’t age Solid for said reason, just read the god-damn Document of MGS2, it’s all in there. Just because they’ve aged him now for MGS4 doesn’t prove anything, it only proves that Kojima feels differently about the situation now. Next up… How can you just say The Patriots don’t control age, but can control everything else…? You are twisting it to try and prove your theory correct. Seeing as how The Patriots control who becomes president, it would be more than easy for them to fudge Solidus’ age, especially since the Les Enfants Terribles project was a secret government project that the public was not privy to, so no-one outside the higher authorities would know how old Solidus really was. Your next point about Liquid not knowing about Solidus doesn’t prove the “he must be a natural child” thing at all. It only proves the other, much more likely, theory that Solidus was created on his own separately as a result of the original experiment’s results at a different time to when Solid and Liquid were born. You really need to do some more research before coming up with your crazy theories.--Fantomas 23:54, 9 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Crazy you call my theories crazy mr." It only proves the other, much more likely, theory that Solidus was created on his own separately as a result of the original experiment’s results at a different time to when Solid and Liquid were born. You really need to do some more research before coming up with your crazy theories" that would mean he would be younger then both of them giving him no reason to be so aged, he would look like snake in shadow moses because he would be a year younger then Solid and liquid because it still takes 9 months to develop a child from putting in the egg to birth unless they gave them a growth situmlant(wouldn't explain why snake looks young in MG or MGS). Your theory right there that he was made after L&S is more crazy then a natural birth why would you want a rapidly aging prefect solider(solidus in his prime),why especially with things like the cold war still going and might erupt any day(1970's cold war still going)? I don't care if he was suppose to look like the old(MGS1) him to watch him go from alright looking prefect solider that took down 4 metal gears(by canon): solid snake to, OMFG how are you alive and fighting: old snake(which I believe by the ending of MGS1 and that fox die is the cause and no other explanation unless hideo or kojima pro team says it's cause by the clone process) . Even if what you just said in there is true this just disproves of him being a part of the 1973 "Les Enfants Terribles" disproving this whole conversation and disproving yourself at the same time since you first said he was apart of the 1973 project deedeedee and I think Liquid after researching his brother so much would have mentioned a third brother in MGS1. The birth thing I was talking about them controlling the birth date on his birth certificate because GUESS WHAT people check that and if something doesn't match guess what they tell some one. BB never exactly said he was infertile thought did he? he just said "I'll never have children" meaning one of many things could be that he just doesn't want them or THINKS he infertile and he hasn't slept with anyone beside EVA and probably boss when he was younger... and hasn't seen EVA since then(in offical canon)and we have no further info on her after MGS3 and we already know by the scar on her chest that Boss has it couldn't have children.-Gas Snake 01:44, 11 July 2007 (UTC)


 * One question: Do you honestly believe that a secretly created/born person who could very well have been abducted by the Patriots from birth (just like Ocelot or Olga’s baby) would have a god-damn birth certificate? And yes, even if he did, they could have very easily have fabricated or altered it seeing as how they control all the data flow in the U.S…. This whole theory is very flawed and you are basing it on very crooked knowledge. Solidus being created at a separate time isn’t a stupid theory; it’s a theory that is very heavily influenced from actual dialogue from the game, unlike your assumptions. You claim that Ocelot being The Boss’ son as being something that was assumed by fans and criticise them for it (yet is actually stated fully in game) and your theories are no better. I give you a few lines of dialogue from MGS2 which fuels the “Solidus created later” theory (which is a widely accepted theory in the MGS community.)

"But I knew him by his codename, "Solidus Snake." He was the third Snake, preceded by Solid and Liquid... a survivor of the Les Enfants Terrible project. Neither Solid nor Liquid, he was a well-balanced masterpiece that the Patriots saw fit to entrust with the Presidency."

- President Johnson

And yes, The Cell Degeneration that all three of the Snake’s we’re experiencing are thanks to the primitive cell-cloning processes as stated by Kojima. I believe the exact quote was because “cloning wasn’t as sophisticated in the 70’s as it is nowadays, ‘causing the Snake’s to age much faster.” This is why Solidus looks about 50 in MGS2, which is way too old if he was EVA’s son. Why would the Patriots’ want a rapidly aging perfect soldier? Because they took what they could at the time! They needed that soldier right away, and didn’t want to have to wait a long time for him to be ready, with this taken into account it would be more convenient for them to have a rapidly aging soldier, fully equipped with the Soldier Gene. And I never said he was a part of the 1973 project, I simply said he was a part of the Les Enfants Terribles project. I never mentioned a year at all, so get off your high horse. And Big Boss may have never said directly that he was infertile, but for god’s sake Kojima has, and the man who created the story for these games has to be speaking fact, right? --Fantomas 22:23, 11 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Let's start this off with one....you still haven't stated that kojima said he was infertile...two he said and I quote you from him "causing the Snake’s to age much faster" look at the key word in there he didn't say the snake brothers he didn't say all three he just said "snake is" which is bad engrish translation like "Some one set us up the bomb" Or "all your base are belong to us" then theres this quote

"But I knew him by his codename, "Solidus Snake." He was the third Snake, preceded by Solid and Liquid... a survivor of the Les Enfants Terrible project. Neither Solid nor Liquid, he was a well-balanced masterpiece that the Patriots saw fit to entrust with the Presidency."

- President Johnson

that quote right there is riddled full of holes he might be the offical third snake but WHY WOULD THE La-le-lu-li-lo/Patriots entrust some one that's just a figure head with real information especially since they been dead for over a 100 years and still been keeping secrets like they where still going to kill him. Solidus seems to be a man in his late 40's and MGS3 takes place in 63 MGS2 takes place in 07/09..... making him NEARLY 50 if he was result of natural birth and remember the Patriots CONTROL ALL INFORMATION and plus some times Kojima has messed with reality like the appearance of young snake at times.--Gas Snake 01:59, 21 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Hey Gas, EVA's back in MGS4. You must be pretty excited, right? You should be seeing as how you just proved your own theory wrong in your last post. Good going! --Fantomas 10:56, 24 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Wait right there Fantomas If you listen to session 50 of KP report you would have heard that Randy Nelson himself who's probably looked over the script said and I'm typing as I listening to this

"They're being back some one who's basically you know grand mother I mean mother to some of these characters"

- Randy Nelson

directly from the mans mouth and she would be 80 yes 80 which is amazing for anyone let alone a women near her life expectancy to fight and meaning that could prove my point (but also at the same time disprove me just because I didn't just like you didn't know for a while that EVA was in the script back when I stated my statement) especially since the game takes places in two places the middle east and South America, the vamp/raiden fight confirmed in session 50 of the KPR takes place a South American. If I'm wrong about Solidus that means there's a daughter of big boss which is Sniper wolf the women raised on a battlefield in the middle east as a Kurd and she has very similar style of dress to younger EVA and still proving me half right we just have to wait until march 08 to find out--Gas Snake 00:51, 3 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Randy Nelson is the editor of some video game magazine over here in England. What he says is nowhere near fact at all. The fact that you're taking his word as fact when he has nothing to do with the games is hilarious. He's speculating just as much as we are. They would let him nowhere near the script, 'cause he is nothing more then a magazine editor. The fact that he thinks the masked guy is Raiden, is proof enough of how much he is an idiot. --Fantomas 11:10, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

Anotehr Clone
is there a new Clone in MGS4 cause i saw a young snake in this tralier ages ago but in the most recent trailer Solid snake or old snake is shown becoming young by some means so it could be him right and Kojima's just messing with our heads right? User:Captain-One