Board Thread:General Discussion/@comment-177.180.133.31-20140612222050/@comment-96.59.223.143-20140614141817

Weedle McHairybug wrote:

96.59.223.143 wrote:

Weedle McHairybug wrote:

96.59.223.143 wrote:

Weedle McHairybug wrote:

Terminator-HIX wrote: It's not just Kojima; the games themselves barely acknowledge Portable Ops. It was released in '06, but only one of its plot points (Zero gathering up the Philosopher's Legacy and using it to found the Patriots) is particularly relevant to the rest of the series, and its most direct sequel (Peace Walker) only references it once AFAIK, not even an hour into the game. What is the reference? It's Kaz talking about "leaving all that crap in San Heironymo behind"... Well, that stuff and The Boss being set up by the CIA to die from the start, also Hot Coldman apparently being behind her death. Oh, and founding FOXHOUND as well and the retiring of FOX.

Besides, technically speaking, most of the Big Boss-related stuff in MGS4 wasn't even acknowledged in Peace Walker either, as the opening of the game doesn't seem to even hint that he made any alliances with Zero to form the Patriots (and in fact, the way the opening was handled could be taken to imply that Big Boss may have formed MSF immediately after Snake Eater), and the scene before the true final boss had Big Boss not even knowing who the Patriots were DESPITE Paz giving that history lecture on their splitting up (I mean, if she only stated the name Cipher, I could understand him not knowing, but when she actually gives enough details to make obvious who Cipher is, and he still doesn't know, I'm sorry, but there's no excuse).

And it's not like other games have ignored plot points before: MGS4's Act 1 Briefing had Solid Snake reacting as if it was the first time he had even heard of Liquid Ocelot despite his encountering him not once, but twice on MGS2, and on non-consecutive occasions, and was even implied to have firmly believed he had indeed possessed him and accepted it in the ending of the game.

151.24.172.164 wrote: Yeah, they can shoot as reported in the schematics, but when Snake faces them, they are not in the condition to do it, that's why they are not considered in that picture. Actually, REX didn't shoot nukes either, and certainly was in no condition to shoot them by MGS4 (which was ironically the image used for REX in the comparison picture). Heck, RAY, Gekko, Tripod, Pupa, Chrysalis, and Cocoon don't even have the ability to launch nukes, either, yet they made the cut, and heck, the Shagohod isn't even a Metal Gear at all yet it still made the cut. Yet ZEKE, D, TX-55 and RAXA/ICBMG never made the cut, and ZEKE was proven to be capable of launching a nuke. Oh, and BTW, D definitely was in the condition to use a nuke. Not this again. I don't recall him acting like he had never heard of Liquid Ocelot. Simply saying "I watched him die" just means that he's still in shock years later that Liquid "survived" the heart attack. I also don't recall the FOX unit being mentioned or the CIA planning The Boss' death from the start being mentioned either. The latter was mentioned in MGS4 though. Anyway, Coldman definitely was behind The Boss' death. He even said "The operation to eliminate the traitor? I planned the whole thing." Except he wasn't in shock at all in the ending of MGS2 (which was the second time Snake encountered Liquid Ocelot), and even implied that he fully accepted that Liquid was likely back, yet most likely would fail in his goal. That's the problem. As far as the CIA planning The Boss's death from the start, I was actually referring to MGS4 when I said that. FOX being retired was briefly mentioned in MGS3's timeline, and was also implied briefly with the FOXHOUND tape in Peace Walker. So what? Who cares that he didn't show shock to Raiden? Also, Snake never said he didn't accept that Liquid was back in MGS4. You make a big deal out of nothing a lot. If they wanted to make sure people got the idea he was still shocked, they'd make sure he was still shocked when he reconvened with Raiden in the ending. And again, accepting that Liquid was back in MGS4 would mean he wouldn't react as though he still thought Liquid was dead.

Probably a better example would be the constant references to FOXHOUND in MGS4 during the events of the Big Shell Incident as if the unit actually existed and that Roy Campbell actually was Raiden's officer, even by Snake himself, and this was despite MGS2 making clear that FOXHOUND was defunct, a simulation, and that Roy was an AI construct.

Again, he never said he thought Liquid was dead. And I totally agree about FOXHOUND and Roy Campbell being Raiden's "commanding officer", though it was Rosemary who said the latter. Even in Rising, Raiden refers to FOXHOUND as an actual unit when he "joined".