Board Thread:Metal Gear Solid V/@comment-4913740-20140331092208/@comment-25600718-20141102042228

Weedle McHairybug wrote:

SolidBiscuit wrote:

Weedle McHairybug wrote:

SolidBiscuit wrote:

Bluerock wrote:

Weedle McHairybug wrote: Peace Walker and MGSV already did that, especially considering the second ending, the ending narrative (combined with Huey's "smart" decision to get the media involved) for Ground Zeroes, heck, what Ishmael and Ocelot stated to Big Boss about the latter being a man so wanted by the entire world (and not in a good way, I should make clear) there isn't even an alive option for him. Look, the games made clear that literally no one even suspected Big Boss was the founder of Outer Heaven, not to mention wasn't even believed to do anything bad, yet considering those games, they basically tore that bit up. They haven't "torn it up." There's a whole 11 years between TPP and MG1 in which Big Boss can be redeemed in the eyes of whoever "the whole world" (who wants him dead) is supposed to be (the public/intelligence agencies/governments?). Besides which, unless it was the U.S. government that actually wanted him dead, people just hating would not stop him from assuming a position in a military squad that is top-secret to the public.

Also, it's never been claimed that absolutely nobody ever knew or suspected that Big Boss was Outer Heaven's leader, so don't be misusing the word "literally." Cipher might be fully aware, but may not have the power to dictate what actions the U.S. carries out. Then again, if there is some reconciliation with Big Boss in the intervening years, maybe they just don't care. Big Boss may agree to become Cipher's deterrent force due to events in TPP, and betray them later on. Events may be extreme enough for them to bury the hatchet over the ZEKE incident.

I'm just speculating anyway. There's no need to be so close-minded and pessimistic about such things. Good points. I have some additions also.

It really seems to me that tearing up MG1 would really be taking a difficult and uncessary route. Not to mention it would be the largest retcon the series has ever seen. There are many possible events that could occur in MGS5 to change things to let it all make sense in the end.

Big boss is kept alive in a patriot hospital (note the hexagonal floor tiles) This happens long after Les Enfants Terribles (1972, coma happens in 1975) so he's not being kept for that reason.

Big Boss could be kept alive so Zero could use him for some purpose. They don't need to actually be friends for BB to head Foxhound later on.

The Ground Zeroes tapes actually state that Cipher would not kill or accept the death of Big Boss. SF mentions how Cipher would mourn his death

The theory that Skullface is manipulating events between BB and Cipher to get to Cipher isn't so much a theory, as blatantly obvious to anyone who has played Ground Zeroes and understood the tapes properly.

This is presumably understood later on by Cipher. Who really has no clue what is going on since Paz took a dip into the ocean. Unless he's just terribly indecisive and did want to kill BB at the end of PW, but then regretted it and decides he likes him again by the time Ground Zeroes happens. Maybe, but then again, I'm extremely doubtful that Cipher would even arrange for the news media to basically parrot the party line that they were greedy private military men and then orchestrate a scandal in not just the US, but worldwide as well thanks largely to their clients being exposed, thus all but ensuring Big Boss, assuming he survived, became a very wanted criminal, if Cipher didn't want him dead. And besides, didn't Paz mention in her diary tapes that Cipher wanted Big Boss dead or something?

And based on Skull Face mentioning he intended to keep his distance from Cipher from that point onwards when Paz pointed it out, I'm pretty sure Cipher was at least aware of Skull Face torturing Paz and may have ordered it, as there's little reason for Skull Face to torture Paz on the location of MSF if that wasn't what Cipher wanted, especially when he hasn't openly rebelled against them yet. It's no problem to criticize a mercenary group in the media, especially not when mercs can rename themselves so easily. This happens in the real world also. If you remember when Blackwater were subject to so much criticism, they just shifted some assets to other holdings and renamed themselves to Xe Services, and a couple years later renamed themselves again to Academi.

The same thing happens with MSF, after they are highlighted in the media, they start from scratch as Diamond Dogs.

Also very important to note, that while the real world groups like Blackwater have their name changes documented, the public is largely unaware of this. In the MSF and Diamond Dogs timeline, the internet hasn't even been invented yet, so the public has to rely on the Cipher controlled media for their information.

The "greedy mercenary groups" media narrative was really just a dismissal, or whitewash. Even though it's technically not a lie, the media hardly got the full story of the events and parties involved with the dissolution of MSF. That was the real goal with the Cipher controlled media, not so much about demonizing MSF.

As for Skullface, Paz wasn't tortured for the location of MSF, but for Cipher's location. Yes, but even with that, there's still the fact that Big Boss is a wanted man. And the media's line about "greedy mercenary groups" doesn't sound like dismissal, especially when the ending narration directly leads into how MSF's ties with America and presumably both East and West resulted in a huge political scandal.

As far as Paz, AFTERWARDS, yes he was getting Cipher's location, before that, however, he was specifically trying to get MSF's location (heck, Skull Face even made that blatant in I think the 5th tape, and even implied that he may have also used that knowledge to manipulate Huey into letting them in). Heck, the entire UN front was even strongly implied by all parties to be Cipher's work to corroborate Paz's leak. BB may be a wanted man during the events of TPP, but this obviously changes later. Sure Kojima said there would be retcons, but aren't there always? It's just assumption right now that BB doesn't go on to form Foxhound.

BB was not SFs main target. He's just a stepping stone on the way to taking out Cipher. It's unknown how much information Cipher shares with SF, presumably not much since SF wanted tactical information about MSF like force size and capabilities. This is all stuff Cipher already knew, including the location of MSF. So clearly SF is not an agent working for Cipher to destroy MSF, but working on his own with his own agenda.

Also SF should've been pretty aware that Cipher no longer planned to use MSF as his military. The events of Ground Zeroes suggests he either doesn't know that, or he planned the breakup, but has to take the more drastic measure later on of actually destroying MSF himself when his interference is discovered. This is the only other reason I can think of for SF targetting MSF, unless it was for some kind of personal grudge against BB. Although the footage of BB with SF in TPP trailers suggests against this.