Board Thread:General Discussion/@comment-86.46.22.35-20130403153709/@comment-1672596-20150411115350

64.33.250.214 wrote: Weedle McHairybug wrote: I'd respond, but then it would detract from the topic. I will mention this, though: Kojima ALSO cited John Carpenter and other film makers/films as inspirations for the Metal Gear series. In fact, he's pretty much influenced by movies overall.

And exactly how is Kazuhira Miller obvious? Before the game came out, heck, before Kojima even revealed they were the same character, people thought he may have been Master Miller's dad, NOT Master Miller himself (and even in the actual game, it wasn't really made clear that he and Master were the same person until the second ending timeline), and even afterwards some people still thought Miller was Master Miller's dad until possibly getting the second ending (just look at some topics on MGSForums and GameFAQs if you don't believe me). Don't forget, before Peace Walker, Master Miller had a completely different backstory, not to mention a completely different name (it was McDonell Benedict Miller, something that was even stated in Metal Gear Solid, The Twin Snakes, heck, even Metal Gear Solid 4 via the flashbacks), so yes, revealing Kazuhira Miller is the same as Master Miller is indeed a pretty huge spoiler, even if you give the argument that Ocelot and Huey were obvious from the get-go.

And as far as Eli, had they wanted to avoid spoiling a plot twist relating to LET, heck, even any hints that other LET children like Solidus and Solid Snake were going to be involved, they wouldn't have even MENTIONED the fact that Les Enfants Terribles was shut down in 1976 in the ending timeline of Ground Zeroes, period. And besides, do I really need to remind you that Liquid Snake would most likely have needed to go to military school during that time? I could buy his going to Afghanistan and the Middle East, but NOT to Africa, especially when AFAIK there wasn't anything during that time where the British entered conflict (most if not all of the British colonies in Africa pretty much declared and won independence anyhow). I might as well also remind you that around the time that The Phantom Pain was first advertised as a different IP from Kojima Productions, Kojima indicated that he was planning on redoing the whole MGS2 plot twist (and considering how far too many people managed to predict his stunt, some of which he even dropped a lot of hints on Twitter, I really doubt the faked IP was what he had in mind). And no, this wouldn't be a similar switcheroo. What would be a similar switcheroo would be constantly advertising Big Boss to be the playable character, only to reveal last minute that he was actually someone else. We barely even got much indication on Eli right now, which is another significant difference with a distinction (heck, they haven't even released any information on who his English voice actor is going to be). The only thing it MIGHT be similar to is the plot twist that Paz was a Cipher agent in Peace Walker, something that aside from a brief bit of dialogue with Miller in Chapter 2, there was literally no hint at Paz not being what she claimed she was, or to Armstrong, who BTW was actually so secret that not even the official website for Rising ever covered him (in fact, the only hints to his existence prior to the game's release was a WarOnOurShores viral video, a poster posted at Zavvi of Snake Soup's high school, and a leaked trophy/achievement list).

Anyways, for the topic, like I said three times by now, I doubt Ishmael is an illusion, but we do need to find out his identity soon. Kojima has indeed cited many famous film directors as influences. However, Kubrick's filmography as a whole seem to have the most references in the franchise, compared to other famous directors who inspired the franchise.

Otacon wasn't even born during Peace Walker's timeline, making it far less likely for him to have been Huey. Miller, on the other hand, was old enough to have been around during that time. Even without knowing Miller's birthday, he was clearly older than the clones, having been an instructor to Solid, who was conceived in 1972. His character model looks younger than his portrait from MGS1 as well, though it's difficult to completely discern age through a drawing. It may not have been obvious to some people that Miller in PW was the original Miller, but evidence was there.

LET is not a spoiler. It has been a plot element since MGS1, and is mentioned in nearly every game. If it were revealed before release that Liquid is Eli, it could tip off the fans that LET may take on a central role in PP's story. As it stands, Kojima has left enough to keep us guessing, while heavily hinting at Eli being Liquid.

Liquid's Wikia entry doesn't mention anything about military school. All it says is that he entered SAS at 18. Standard training isn't exactly The Patriot's MO. The Patriots could have given Liquid special training (imagine a retro style of VR Missions), or perhaps they sent him into Africa with little training in order to test his natural adaptability to new environments. Like putting a rat in a maze and seeing if it can find the cheese. Liquid did say that they used him as a guinea pig.

In what way did Kojima imply that he was going to do the same plot twist as in MGS2? When the first trailers for Phantom Pain were released, a lot of people (myself including) were predicting that it was a teaser for MGSV. The words "Metal Gear Solid V" were even hidden in the word title for Phantom Pain. There's little to indicate that the first trailer for PP was intended as an entirely new property. Kojima did a similar kind of publicity stunt with PT, which players had to complete in order to reveal that it was actually a teaser for a new Silent Hill game.

Note that I said SIMILAR switcheroo, and not SAME switcheroo. Implying that Eli is Liquid in the trailers, then having him turn out to be some random newbie, is SIMILAR to showing Solid in MGS2 trailer, and finding out he was replaced by a totally unrelated blonde guy. No, it's not the same situation, but there are similarities. I feel confident in saying it's implied that Liquid is Eli. He's roughly the same age Liquid would be, he's blonde, has an aversion to shirts, and is wearing JACKAL TEETH (Jackals being the animals Liquid said he hunted).

If you look up Phantom Pain on IMDB, a young British actor is listed as the voice for Eli.

Paz working for Cipher is a plot twist similar to Ocelot working for The Patriots in previous games. A better comparison would be if Paz had been teased as possibly being Sniper Wolf in Peace Walker trailers. Rising was created under a different development team, with Kojima only listed as a supervisor. Kojima also had minor involvement with Portable Ops. However, he has put distance between himself and those projects, as they are not truly his own directed works.

Much of this relates to the topic of Ishmael. It shows that Kojima has left some things in the dark before, and is entirely capable of doing so. He has left clues, albethey scant, concerning Ishmael's identity. Although you don't personally see a connection, I believe the clues are in the character's name. Where I disagree with you, is in the suggestion that we need to decipher his true identity before the game releases. My original point was to stress that the hallucination theory is not as sound as others have claimed. As long as we're in agreement there, then I don't feel the need to convince you of my own theories regarding who Ishmael really is.

Actually, Metal Gear was most influenced by Guns of Navarone and The Great Escape, none of which were directed by Kubrick.

And also, I never said Huey was Otacon, just that it may have been obvious that he was related to him (and for the record, technically, early production materials for MGS implied that Otacon was in fact born in the 1970s). Kazuhira Miller, however, had not only a completely different backstory from Master Miller, but also a different name from him. For all we know, that could have easily just been Master Miller's father before Kojima opened his big fat mouth about it. And do I really need to remind you that in Metal Gear Solid, "Master Miller" was being impersonated by Liquid Snake who was LITERALLY the same age as Solid Snake? That's not going to be a very good example in any case. In fact, considering that, Master Miller would more likely look the same age as Solid Snake at least, certainly not be the same age as Solid Snake. Besides, if the reason he revealed Miller being the same as Master Miller was just stating the obvious, he wouldn't have any problem revealing that with Eli and Liquid Snake, especially when we don't actually have any revelations in-game that Master Miller and Kazuhira Miller are the same person until the second ending timeline, where it mentioned he was offed by an unidentified assassin in 2005 and thus revealing that before the game's release, obvious or not, IS a spoiler.

And that's EXACTLY what I meant by meant by LET being mentioned in Ground Zeroes on the ending timeline as being a major spoiler: It gave the hint that LET would play a major role in The Phantom Pain. If Kojima as you said wanted to avoid any hints that TPP would play a major role in the story by avoiding mentioning the connection between Eli and Liquid Snake for spoiler-related reasons, the same would be said regarding even MENTIONING LET on the timeline at all (especially when in this particular case, they actually gave new information about LET, specifically that it ended in 1976).

Maybe not, but the novelization of Metal Gear Solid did have Solid Snake being constantly referenced to have practically lived in the military since he was a kid, something that the original game and even Peace Walker to a lesser extent implied, and Snake didn't even know about the Patriots, unlike Liquid. And if Solid Snake got that, it's pretty clear Liquid would have gotten the same as well.

I know he mentioned in a few articles that he planned on doing a MGS2-style plot twist, expressing interest in it. It was I think back in November of 2012, just before the unveilment of The Phantom Pain IP. It was even talk on GameFAQs at the time (although good luck trying to find the topics, because GameFAQs when they redid everything after GDC2013 to match up with The Phantom Pain decided to erase the original Phantom Pain boards). And BTW, when asked repeatedly about whether The Phantom Pain was his property, he denied it, and he also denied that Project Ogre was actually related to Metal Gear at all (both revealed to be lies, BTW).

And BTW, Jackals are what Liquid Snake hunted in the Middle East, NOT Africa (the latter of which was clearly the setting where Eli met and fought Venom Snake), and based on the language in the TGS Demo, it would have to be in Central or even the tip of Africa due to the presence of Dutch throughout. And need I really point out that IMDB can be edited by anyone? Until we have actual official sources stating who Eli's voice actor is, we really don't have much to go on.

And BTW, Ocelot working for the enemy was only a true plot twist in MGS1. In MGS2 and MGS3, it was painfully obvious he was working for them (for goodness sakes, Ocelot mentioned he was working for the Patriots in the Tanker Chapter's ending, meaning it was clear he was working for them in the Plant Chapter long before the reveal. As far as MGS3, again, Tanker Chapter had him mentioning that he was working for the Americans against the Russians since the Cold War).

If he was actually capable of keeping things in the dark, he would have kept Ocelot and Naked Snake's identities, not to mention Huey and Kazuhira Miller's identities secret before release, not flat out reveal it. Heck, he wouldn't even tease anything at all. I know I wouldn't. No trailers, no promotional materials, nothing, just focus on creating the game, preventing any leaks of plot and characters at all, and then releasing it.