User talk:Bluerock/Archive 1

RE: Deleted 'liquid snake' image? (File:Mgs-liquid-snake-concept.jpg)
I didn't know the designs were recycled for Ghost Babel, I just thought the image was flat out from Ghost Babel (it's one of the few Metal Gear games I've never played). Apologies. I thought the image had been uploaded previously, but I can't seem to find it right now. Go ahead and upload again if you want to. --Fantomas 22:33, November 8, 2009 (UTC)

RE: Zanzibar Land Article
Well, that's going to be slightly difficult. I mean, it's one thing to mention the nations/territories of Metal Gear (Solid) as well as events in that timeline, it's quite another to make an article related to the stuff that I inserted into the Zanzibar Land article. Besides which, I once tried to insert personnel in regards to the San Hieronymo Base and make an article out of it, but it didn't quite work out so well. Weedle McHairybug 00:13, November 9, 2009 (UTC)

About your source involving how Snake arrived in Zanzibar Land...
Does your source, by any chance, also have a translated version of the original Metal Gear MSX manuel? I think that it might also have a bit more explainations as to how Snake had entered Outer Heaven. I mean, the only thing we saw of him in regards to his infiltration was swimming up to the Outer Heaven port and getting onto it, and there definitely is more than just having swum all the way to that location. Weedle McHairybug 03:08, November 9, 2009 (UTC)

Thanks
Just wanted to stop by and say thanks for all your edits. Frequent users have come and gone over the past four years, and it can be a little daunting when it gets to the point where it's just me against the wave of silly little edits from unregistered users, users who only stop by every now and then and spammers. You and Weedle McHairybug have been a big help posting things I hadn't even thought about these past couple of days and I really appreciate it! --Fantomas 19:21, November 9, 2009 (UTC)

Question about the Metal Gear 2 Solid Snake translated manual link you used as a source.
Ok, under the Special Task Force Contents section in the Metal Gear 2 Manual, a single unit of the Special Task Forces division (or legion, as the manual labelled it as) was apparently composed of seven fully-equiped Metal Gear D's, three Metal Gear Gustavs, at least eight infantry platoons with one commander, and two trucks, and apparantly are divided up into an Assisstance Scout company, a Supply Unit, and a Caterer Unit. I know what Assisstance Scouts are, as well as Supply Units, but I don't know what Caterer units are. I mean, I looked the word Caterer on Wikipedia, and it just redirects me to "catering", as in, making cakes and pies. Weedle McHairybug 23:02, November 9, 2009 (UTC)

Hey!
Hi! I was just wondering what was the first Mg experience you ever had and how old were you? If you want to know what mine was, I was 4 and I watched my Dad play MGS1 on PS. It changed my life forever!

I am youthful
By the way, why is MGS not popular with young kids like me? I am 11 and the youngest person I know that enjoys MGS is in his mid-twenties! By the way,do you like my sig???--I hear it&#39;s amazing when the purple worm from flapjaw space with the tuning fork, does a raw blink on Hari-Kari Rock. I need scissors! 61! Metalgearboy 18:58, November 10, 2009 (UTC)

Yeah. I guess it is mature
Ya. I suppose it's quite mature. Especially in some of the MGS3 R1 cutscenes with EVA... Lol. By the way, is it just me, or is Ocelot the main bad guy in MGS, I mean, he's been in all of them. And to think he's the boss' son... {C}--I hear it&#39;s amazing when the purple worm from flapjaw space with the tuning fork, does a raw blink on Hari-Kari Rock. I need scissors! 61! Metalgearboy 19:13, November 10, 2009 (UTC)

Best boss
Hey dude. Sorry to bug you again, but what is your fave MGS boss? Mine are Psycho Mantis, The End and The Boss. P.S- The Boss made me and my 4 year old sis cry. Waaahhhhh.... PPS - My sister watched at her own will, I told her to go away.

So funny!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Of-ldGKbc0&feature=related

Search this in web. LOLOLOLOLOLOL

What is this? Also, response to your statement about the retcon of Big Boss serving the GSG 9 and SAS.
Ok, in Metal Gear Solid/Twin Snakes, this exchange is made between Liquid Snake and Solid Snake is made:

Snake: So then... the so-called Gulf War babies that have been reported by Gulf War veterans were...

Liquid: Yes. they, too, are our brothers and sisters.

Can you explain to me exactly what Snake meant by "the so-called Gulf War babies that have been reported by Gulf War veterans?" I'm asking because I tried to find out on Wikipedia and other places about what they are, but I haven't come up with anything. I even posted the question on Youtube, but no one responded.

On a unrelated note, there may be a chance that he did serve the SAS if both the American units and the SAS participated in a battle together or a mission together. I mean, Major Zero, a SAS member, was serving under the US Government as well. Also, in Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen, one of the members of NEST was a SAS officer. I don't know about the GSG 9, however. Weedle McHairybug 00:32, November 11, 2009 (UTC)

RE: References
Yes. Do it. We were really bad about including them when we started (me and Selo, who founded this wiki, had never really edited wikis before starting here), so there are naturally tons of paces that require them but don't have them. --Fantomas 23:44, November 16, 2009 (UTC)

RE: Hey, Weedle.
I guess it was a mistake in memory. My mistake. Weedle McHairybug 22:13, November 25, 2009 (UTC)

RE: FOXHOUND gear
Well, I might have misinterpreted the reason. Well, whatever the case, I already created the link, and I don't want to end up dragging on the article to such a length that viewers of this wikia might not be able to handle.

As for the question of the Chameleon suit, I actually don't know. I was initially thinking of doing a reword of the description of how the Metal Gear 2, Solid Snake manual translation on MSX2net, but the last few times I tried to do it, it ended up becoming very sloppy (which I think was the primary reason why you edited it after I took a stab at both FOXHOUND and Zanzibar Fortress's creation.), so I haven't decided which direction to do it in. Plus, I'm a bit rusty on creating tables, so I might need to review my notes from Senior Year. Weedle McHairybug 19:42, November 29, 2009 (UTC)

RE:
Well, the only reason I ended up becoming an unregistered creator of the Zanzibar Fortress Article was because I was timed out before I was able to submit it (believe me, trying to balance having Thanksgiving Dinner with family, getting sources for college assignments, working on at least one college assignment, looking up MSX.net and actually creating the article under a limited log-on time limit without a remember me option is not as easy as it looks.). BTW, it's ok for you to look at it when I'm finished.

PS Thanks for uploading those images on Zanzibar Fortress. I wasn't quite sure where to find those pics, especially since I'm still a novice at actually uploading images on Wikis. Weedle McHairybug 20:06, November 29, 2009 (UTC)

Question about units in Portable Ops...
Ok, I just wanted to know something about units in Portable Ops.

For starters, I just wanted to know exactly what are those russian/red army soldiers with the brown/green outfits and ski-masks? I mean, I've heard that they were called LYNXes, but I looked that class on wikipedia, and they don't have any information on them (They did have an article relating to the animal, as well as the military vehicles and weapons, but not the class of soldier). Weedle McHairybug 01:33, December 3, 2009 (UTC)

RE: RE: Lynx.
Ah, ok. It's a bit strange that Wikipedia doesn't have an article on that particular class of soldier. Weedle McHairybug 02:03, December 3, 2009 (UTC)

Oh...
Well, I guess I was going by the outdated translation, then, as the way the MSX2 version was translated made it seem as though she actually was getting married (Snake mentioned something about getting Dr. Madnar back to Russia "in time for Ellen's wedding." or something like that.). Thanks for helping me realizing it. Weedle McHairybug 21:01, December 5, 2009 (UTC)

Hey, Bluerock?
I'm having a bit of disagreement with a certain user about something...

It relates to EVA. I'm trying to defend the stance that she knew that Liquid Ocelot really wasn't what he seemed to be (If she didn't, how can she even be able to plan the insurrection with "Liquid Ocelot" to begin with? ...which is what the article implied at least.), but this user is claiming she never knew that Liquid Ocelot was never really possessed by Liquid, that it was all an act. His IP address starts with "70", and we decided (or at least, I decided) that we should take it over to either you or Fantomas.

If you have the time, can you help mediate the debate? I don't wish to carry on an edit war on EVA's page, but I can't just let him add that piece in if it turns out to be incorrect (I know the official strategy guide said she didn't know, but even the official guides can be wrong sometimes, especially if things in-game contradict it.). Hence why I am turning to you. Fantomas and the user are basically in hate mode in regards to editing, so I was hoping I'd turn to you at least, seeing how you managed to dig up info about things not known before (like how Snake was inserted into Zanzibar Land, for example.). Weedle McHairybug 21:31, December 8, 2009 (UTC)

RE: RE: EVA
Ok, but the way the article worded her part on the insurrection (IE, "her planning with Ocelot for "liquid's" insurrection") implied that she was fully aware that Ocelot was faking his being possessed by Liquid. Well, might as well put it back in, as well as remove that tidbit about how she arranged with Ocelot for "Liquid's" insurrection. Weedle McHairybug 20:42, December 9, 2009 (UTC)

EDIT: Here's the specific line in the article that I'm referring to: {C}"In addition, she planned "Liquid's" insurrection from the beginning, together with Naomi and Ocelot himself, as part of their plan to destroy the Patriots' system once and for all and revive Big Boss. "

See, if she didn't know that Ocelot was actually faking his being possessed by Liquid, I don't think that this would have been stated (How can she "plan" Liquid's insurrection from the start if she didn't even know that Ocelot was faking possession?) Weedle McHairybug 20:53, December 9, 2009 (UTC)

What a fan edited in a wiki is not supposed to be considered proof. Fix the article if it makes you feel better. --72.186.96.252 20:57, December 9, 2009 (UTC)


 * I just did. Now, if Bluerock or Fantomas or whatever edits it back in, gives good reasons for keeping it in, and the source about the whole issue about the prima guide doesn't sway them, then we don't try to edit it out, or if we have to place it somewhere, then at least the trivia section. Deal? Weedle McHairybug 21:01, December 9, 2009 (UTC)


 * Of course! --72.186.96.252 21:03, December 9, 2009 (UTC)

About the My Home portion of the page...
Is there a reason why it's glitching up all of a sudden? Weedle McHairybug 19:24, December 10, 2009 (UTC)

Hi. I'd like to know a few things.
First of all, have you played any of the Metal Gear Ac!d games? If not, do you know anyone on here who has played them?

I'm asking because I'm trying to do research on the unlockable characters that can be recruited (IE, EVA, Sokolov, Raikov, Teliko, Venus), and while I am willing to do any missions that deal with EVA, Raikov, and Sokolov. Maybe even Ocelot if there is a unique spy report as well, I am not willing to do the Teliko and/or Venus missions as that would mean having to get the Metal Gear Ac!d games [since they are required to even unlock those reports in the first place.]. So, anyways, I wanted to research them for the scripts so that I can either submit them to a script on GameFAQS, or at the very least make my own Script on the spy missions on GameFAQS. If you have the Ac!d games, as well as Portable Ops, you could help give me a script on the Teliko and Venus Missions (The things I need are the stage selection script, the pre-mission script, and, if such a script is available, the script available after recruiting Teliko and/or Venus. The end mission script works as well.). You don't have to if you don't want to, but it would be highly appreciated if you do. Weedle McHairybug 17:17, December 26, 2009 (UTC)


 * I have played both Ac!d games and have unlocked Teliko and Venus. However, I would only be able to access the report scripts by playing the game through again, starting from scratch. So I'm afraid I can't help you right now. Try searching on youtube if you haven't already, I'll tell you if I find anything. -- Bluerock 17:27, December 26, 2009 (UTC)


 * Well, I took your advice, and I searched youtube. Unfortunately, the searches didn't turn up with anything. They did show the spy reports (which I didn't really need, anyways, as those I can easily access) and the Passcodes. Of course, I'm not really surprised at the turnout, seeing how the last time I tried doing something like that (the Raikov mission), it had a similar failure. Weedle McHairybug 17:34, December 26, 2009 (UTC)

RE: Metal Gear VRC-4
Ah, I see. it just seemed like they were talking about Metal Gear 2, seeing how it was given a different article and all. I wonder why that article was created, anyways? Weedle McHairybug 21:23, January 1, 2010 (UTC)

Trivia on Big Boss...
I based that trivia off of the statement on Solid Snake's article that the "true brains behind the Patriots were Major Zero and Big Boss". I'll try and remove it as soon as the whole mess that that IP user created is undone by unprotecting the page. Weedle McHairybug 12:47, January 2, 2010 (UTC)

No
Only that he was a member in 1964. Portable Ops suggests that he was a member as early as 1961. --SyphonFilter1987 21:42, January 3, 2010 (UTC)

Ladder
Oh, it gets better, he even cited a site that claimed that this ladder was actually a boss in that same article. Heck, most of the info on that article, if not all of it, was from that website. Weedle McHairybug 14:21, January 8, 2010 (UTC)

RE: Unnamed family
If you guys feel it should stay then so be it. It just seems really redundant to put "Un-named Father" in my opinion. --Fantomas 15:14, January 8, 2010 (UTC)
 * Yes, the second one is what I meant. Over half of the characters have unknown family members, we only list Otacon's because he mentions them, but we still know virtually nothing about them. --Fantomas 15:22, January 8, 2010 (UTC)

Hey, Bluerock
I was wondering if you could help trim down the San Hieronymo Takeover article. Prior to becoming a registered user, I had contributed a lot to the article in regards to the plotline, which was extremely shallow. However, I kinda took it to the opposite side of extreme and made it too detailed. Fantomas managed to summarize some parts of the article, but he took a long break. I'd do it myself, but I kinda have a hard time trying to summarize, as I view all details as being absolutely vital. If you're willing to, great. If not, well, your choice. Weedle McHairybug 16:18, January 10, 2010 (UTC)


 * I will see what I can do when I have the time. I'll try and keep the important plot points in there, while any info relating to specific characters and their development can probably be removed since they will probably already have been noted in their respective articles. Bluerock 17:02, January 10, 2010 (UTC)

RE: Metal Gear REX's Blueprints
Done and Done. It's strange though, I thought that that was the same thing as mass-production. Guess not. Weedle McHairybug 13:52, January 19, 2010 (UTC)

Nastasha mentioned a novel and drink called Stinger?
News to me. I called her many times and she never mentioned that. Maybe she mentioned that in Twin Snakes. When I called her, I had the Stinger equipped but she just talked about what it does.

Image categories
Hey Bluerock, awesome job on categorizing the images. I know how it is to do this, but your work is greatly appreciated.--Richardtalk 00:56, February 4, 2010 (UTC)

Wait, that was supposed to be Gray Fox's bandana?
I watched the videos of the fight on Youtube, and it certainly seemed like his hair was orange, rather than it merely being a red bandana. Sorry, it just seemed hard to tell. I looked on the Wiki image on Wikipedia, and now I can definitely see that it was meant to be a bandana. My mistake. Weedle McHairybug 23:29, February 12, 2010 (UTC)


 * Yeah, 8-bit sprites are not terribly clear to begin with. Funnily, his sprite actually had black hair in the first Metal Gear, when Snake rescues him. --Bluerock 23:41, February 12, 2010 (UTC)
 * I'm guessing that his hair was black due to the fact that his sprite was a palette swap of the Hostages, seeing how, other than the fact that his clothes color was blue instead of brown, he looked exactly like them. Gray Fox's artwork actually showed his hair as being far from black (The only one of the characters who actually had black hair in the picture was Ellen Madnar.). Weedle McHairybug 23:47, February 12, 2010 (UTC)

So, Psycho Mantis was using stealth?
Well, that's strange. The way he was talking made it seem as though that he was cloaking himself via Psychokinesis/ESP.

Snake: Optic Camouflage, huh? I hope that isn't your only trick.

Psycho Mantis: You! You doubt my power?! Now I will show you why I am the most powerful practitioner of psychokinesis and telepathy in the world. No... there's no need for words, Snake. (apparates) I am... Psycho Mantis. That's right. This is no trick. It's true power.

Weedle McHairybug 19:34, February 20, 2010 (UTC)

"Outer Heaven Uprising
"Outer Heaven's true nature was revealed in 1995 when it was discovered that the company had developed a nuclear-equipped bipedal tank. Alarmed by its capability to produce weapons of mass destruction, the US dispatched Special Forces Unit FOXHOUND to investigate. FOXHOUND sent in its best soldier, Gray Fox, followed by new recruit Solid Snake. The mission was code-named Operation Intrude N313. Several days after FOXHOUND was dispatched, Outer Heaven was destroyed in an inexplicable earthquake that struck the area. This series of events is known as the Outer Heaven Uprising. Solid Snake left FOXHOUND following the end of his mission."

http://natmal.net/mgsdb/?enc&id=395

I think the airstrikes happened several minutes after the self destruct sequence destroyed the fortress. I guess Nato bombed the residential areas of Outer Heaven. Snake didn't know about the bombings so it had to have happened after he left the area.


 * Hmm, perhaps they mean after Gray Fox was dispatched to Outer Heaven, since they just say FOXHOUND? They say the earthquake occurred as Metal Gear was destroyed so I believe this is what they actually meant. It's funny that the database mentions nothing of Outer Heaven's self-destruction, despite being mentioned in MGS1's previous operations, so perhaps this has been retconned from existence, but I guess we can't be sure. --Bluerock 21:56, February 24, 2010 (UTC)

You said that Big Boss was stated in official documents pertaining to Metal Gear Solid to be in his 70s when defeated, right?
Well, can you supply a link or even a source to these "documents" that stated that Big Boss was in his seventies when he was defeated in 1999? I only found one so-called "official" document pertaining to MGS1 era Big Boss (which is this: http://guidesarchive.ign.com/guides/569/images/big_boss.jpg, but it doesn't mention anything about Big Boss being killed in his seventies (In fact, the only reference to the number 70 in this document is the line "Fought as a mercenary around the world in 70's", in which that was actually referencing the era, and not his actual age. Weedle McHairybug 02:27, February 25, 2010 (UTC)

Yeah, I undid the change on Mi-24 entry after you noticed.
Fair enough, I noticed the message and undid my changes after you noticed.

RE: My logic on how the nuclear strike.
The text limit for edit summaries was too short, but what I was trying to state was that not doing the Nuclear Strike would have actually exposed the Patriots existance, especially seeing how most of the hostages on Shadow Moses Island would most likely have known about REX (the hostages were involved in the REX project), as well as there being some data on REX existing (Otacon was able to tell Snake what REX was capable of from Baker's files.), including the people within the DIA involved. That's why the Patriots, who wanted their existance to remain anonymous to the entire population, even going as far as to modify nanomachines to avoid using the word "patriot" and replacing it with "la li lu le lo," would even recind the air-strike orders (In fact, knowing that the Patriots can alter events in History, long before the Manhattan Incident, given what Johnson stated to Raiden, a Nuclear Strike, along with a convenient coverstory, would most likely be something that they would do.). Plus, there's also the fact that REX would have been a pretty big threat if it managed to somehow get repaired. Anyways, that's how I saw it. Just seemed... sorry to seem Vulcan-ish, but... Illogical for them to do that. Weedle McHairybug 20:28, April 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * Ah, I see the confusion that could stem from this. The quote I added indicates that the Patriots stopped the strike for the very reason that they wouldn't be able to do a full cover-up, despite Houseman saying he had a "convincing cover story." It seems that the launch of the bombers didn't go unnoticed, so saying that the terrorists detonated a nuclear explosion shortly afterwards might sound a bit suspicious. That's my guess anyway. --Bluerock 20:53, April 28, 2010 (UTC)

So, when are you going to finish up with the San Hieronymo locations?
I mean, the last time any progress in changing was in Research Lab just about a few days ago. Weedle McHairybug 00:09, April 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * Don't worry, I'll get round to it. --Bluerock 05:50, April 30, 2010 (UTC)

Question about Trucks in Portable Ops
Hi.

I was wondering about the Trucks in Portable Ops. What exactly are those trucks? I don't know which exact make they are. Weedle McHairybug 01:47, May 14, 2010 (UTC)

RE: quotes
That, and if they hadn't been added above the infobox. I personally don't like them at all, I think they look really tacky. But if people want them so badly they should at least be implemented correctly, yes. --Fantomas 10:05, May 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * I personally don't care. It's Spirit Slasher that keeps including the quotes in the character pages. The only thing that I do is fix them. - Marcaurelix
 * Yeah, I'm not mad on them. Also, Bluerock to answer your questions about Japanese names: we had a guy come along who was incredibly adament that we include them, even though we all thought it was pretty pointless. I'm not sure why. --Fantomas 17:36, May 22, 2010 (UTC)

RE:Johnson
Obviously when someone hears "Mr. President" they're going to assume that he's referring to the actual US President, and given the statements position in the story the player's mind is likely going to jump to the similar conversation at the end of MGS1. I think it's an intentional "red herring" to confuse the player. It has no answer, and it likely never will. The Patriots are indeed one of the most obvious choices, but that doesn't rule out Johnson. We'll never know. It's one of the more minor parts of the Metal Gear Saga, so I wouldn't bother worrying about it. --Fantomas 22:46, May 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * Then can we leave a statement (trivia statement) in Johnson's page explaining that it is unknown who Ocelot was talking to on the phone? - Marcaurelix
 * No. It would be better suited for Ocelot's page. --Fantomas 22:53, May 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * Fair enough - Marcaurelix
 * Since it was implied to the player to be the US President, then it should at least be mentioned on his page, if only to say that it was never actually revealed. Just disregarding any mention of the scene makes Johnson's article seem incomplete, but whatever. Anyway, minor facts are mentioned all the time in trivia sections, along with things that have never been revealed and remain unknown in the games. --Bluerock 07:32, May 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * Come to think of it, Ocelot does refer to Johnson directly as "Mr. President", just after shooting him during the Big Shell Incident, strengthening the argument that "Mr. President" is used as a title for the US President by Ocelot in-game. The title is never used to refer to anybody else. Probably not enough to satisfy everyone but just saying. --19:02, May 27, 2010 (UTC)

RE: Metal Gear Acid
Do what you feel needs to be done. I leave it in your hands. --Fantomas 22:48, May 28, 2010 (UTC)

Hey, man, theres a new page I created, and I need help on it. can you help me by fixing it the same way you fixed the Successor Project page?

Note for "Metal Gear Solid: The Uprising
You see, there was a convention in Las Vegas a few months ago, and I watched it online a few days ago, and they said that there was a book about Naked Snake (Aka Big Boss) about how he got the plans that led him to sent his "Miltiaries San Frontieres" into a large military base in the bowels of Hamburg, Germany, Where Gene plans to destroy the United States witrh a Plutonium Bomb from their new Metal Gear. Hideo Kojima, however, doesn't know if it is set to come out in 2012, but he there there was a possibility. See? I heard it from Hideo Kojima, and he doesn't lie.

Edit: Oh, Shit. I just found out: They're f-ing liers. I looked online, and there was no link to it. in fact, I think Hideo IS a lier, because I just looked online for the source, and the Metal Gear Solid website said: "Sorry, we don't have an article about that." I guess we can delete that article, that is, if we can.

Edit: I agree. but you know, sometimes, enemies in previous games come back to life in later games: Like Liquid, from MGS1, (only through an arm transplant from Ocelolt, of course), and Vamp from MGS2, he came back to help Liquid Ocelot steal the SOP system; and lets not forgert Psycho Mantis and the Sorrow from MGS1 and MGS3, coming to talk to Snake in MGS4. However, Like I said, they are liars, because I could not find an article stating that, so you're right. Is there any way to delete the plage, since it is useless now.

Gameplay For Peace Walker
Hey, I just got MGS: PW yesterday, and let me tell you, the gameplay kinda sucks. Although, some elements from MGS3 is in it; like the camo thing, where you can disguise yourself from the enemy. And, you know, Paz, she's voiced by Tara Strong, the same women that voiced Elisa and Ursula in MGS: PO and Steven as Galvez, who voiced Gene in MGS: PO. Also, just like MGS3, (Although, you have to beat the game once to get this) you get the fork to find and kill animals to use them as food and traps.

So, out of a 10, I give this game a 8.5, so you guys should try it.

Gene Force 21:17, June 9, 2010 (UTC)


 * Unfortunately, I've gotta wait over a week until its released over here in the UK (I can't be bothered to import). I didn't really care for the controls myself, in the demo at least. I don't see why they couldn't have used the top down view, like the old games, since having just one control stick on the PSP is a real pain. --Bluerock 21:33, June 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * oh, by the way, Bluerock, did you know that there are 3 different types of Metal Gears in this game, and one of them looks similar to Volgin's Shagohod? I think they called it "Pupa". Gene Force 21:45, June 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * oh, by the way, Bluerock, did you know that there are 3 different types of Metal Gears in this game, and one of them looks similar to Volgin's Shagohod? I think they called it "Pupa". Gene Force 21:45, June 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * oh, by the way, Bluerock, did you know that there are 3 different types of Metal Gears in this game, and one of them looks similar to Volgin's Shagohod? I think they called it "Pupa". Gene Force 21:45, June 9, 2010 (UTC)

No but
They STILL DIE after six minutes. They don't magically wake up and walk away. They no longer have their suits. Those suits are what kept them alive. God, you're dense. Continue to believe that they survived and lived happily ever after if it makes you feel better. 72.186.97.147 18:25, June 16, 2010 (UTC)
 * You don't even know that. Who knows what their mental state is after being pacified by Snake. The suit isn't simply a life support system for a known physical illness or injury. The game, nor other media, state what happened to them afterwards, so its pointless to speculate. As for the Operator, thats just a default weapon for the sake of cutscenes, it happens in all the games. And this isn't just my view on the matter, it was the community's decision not to say either way since no one knows for sure. --Bluerock 18:31, June 16, 2010 (UTC)
 * Yes, it DOES. If you choose to run from the four beasts after they get off their suits, they collapse and die after six minutes. The suits were their life support. And dialogue in the game also proves that they die. Wake up, man.--72.186.97.147 18:36, June 16, 2010 (UTC)
 * And there's the assumption: if YOU run away. Did Snake run away? Nobody knows. The dialogue didn't prove anything. The only thing that Snake and Drebin know is a rumor. --Bluerock 18:40, June 16, 2010 (UTC)
 * Why can't you understand the truth? The point is they can only survive SIX MINUTES after getting off their suit. Even if Snake knocks them out, they die after six minutes. They don't magically wake up and walk away. The suits were their only life support. SHEESH! And the dialogue makes it clear that they died. Snake asks how old "was" Raven. He says that wolfs are now guarding Crying Wolf's grave. --72.186.97.147 18:46, June 16, 2010 (UTC)
 * Why do you keep repeating yourself, I've already said that they were only shown to die if defeated lethally. How do you know that they don't recover from the PTSD after being spared by Snake (the supposed root of all their suffering)? And I've already said that the extent of Drebin's and Snake's intel is based on a rumor. The fact is no one knows what happened afterwards. If you keep repeating yourself over and over I'm just not gonna respond as its a waste of time.--Bluerock 18:50, June 16, 2010 (UTC)
 * Why are you still dense? They DIE after six minutes. This is proven if you run from them for six minutes. [And there's the assumption: if YOU run away. Did Snake run away?] Recover from the PTSD? That's retarded. {It's speculation, that's why I don't add things like that] Once again, they don't magically wake up and walk away. Those suits were their life support. Without them, they die. There isn't some magical hospital that's nearby.{I've already said that they were only shown to die if defeated lethally.] I repeat myself because because you are a stubborn moron who acts like he's deaf, dumb, and blind. And what part of "was" and "grave" do you not understand? The dialogue made it very clear that they die no matter what. [And I've already said that the extent of Drebin's and Snake's intel is based on a rumor. The fact is no one knows what happened afterwards.] You truly are a brick wall and a waste of time. --72.186.97.147 18:58, June 16, 2010 (UTC)
 * All your points were addressed in my previous comments, as seen above. Have a nice day. --19:04, June 16, 2010 (UTC)
 * My God, you are hopeless. They can only survive being out of their suits for SIX MINUTES. Running away from them PROVES that BUT it doesn't matter if Snake ran away from them or not. They still die. Finally, they ALWAYS get out of their suits. Even if you tranquilize them, they STILL DIE because they can only survive being out of their suits for SIX MINUTES. Intel? Snake clearly said that the wolfs were guarding Crying Wolf's GRAVE. Call Otacon after fighting Crying Wolf. You'll get that conversation. You are a stubborn retarded person. Plain and simple. Have a nice day.--72.186.97.147 19:12, June 16, 2010 (UTC)
 * Just for the record, even IF it is the most likely scenario, we really shouldn't say they died. The fact that we even agreed to use the word "Neutralized" to describe their fates (which, BTW, you agreed with) was to try to not assume their fates. To me, it's only confirmed if there actually ISN'T any way they will survive, even IF Snake tranquilized them, or stun knifed them. If you want an example of such a way, try playing Snake Eater and fighting the first Cobra Unit members. No matter how you defeat them, regardless of whether Snake tranqued them or actually killed them, the result was always the same: they blow up. To me, Hideo Kojima would have done something similar in effect if the intention was for them to die: If Snake defeats the various beauties lethally, they blow up. If Snake avoids battle, they blow up. Lastly, and most importantly: If Snake defeats them non-lethally, THEY BLOW UP! That example would be the ONLY way to have their deaths be absolutely 100% guaranteed. Weedle McHairybug 19:14, June 16, 2010 (UTC)
 * No need to get involved Weedle, he's just trollin' now. --Bluerock 19:16, June 16, 2010 (UTC)
 * The way the page is worded now (and the way Bluerock was editing it) still suggests their deaths as a "likely possibility", just as the game showed us. This should be sufficient, and I don't see what the problem is here. Grow up. --Fantomas 18:28, June 16, 2010 (UTC)
 * I suggest YOU grow up, Fantomas. The game makes it VERY clear that the four beasts died. You are a stubborn fool who can't even accept facts. Get a brain and a life, kid.--72.186.97.147 18:33, June 16, 2010 (UTC)
 * There are no facts here. The game leaves it open to interpretation. So should we. --Fantomas 18:34, June 16, 2010 (UTC)
 * Yeah, it does reveal their fate. Snake asks how old "was" Raven. He says that wolfs are now guarding the "grave" of Crying Wolf. I liked the four characters. I really did. But the fact is they died. Snake kills all four of them. Sad but true. --72.186.97.147 18:38, June 16, 2010 (UTC)

RE: Unnamed Parents
I completely agree with you. The idea of including them just because a character mentions them in a throw away line is quite ridiculous. --Fantomas 08:43, June 17, 2010 (UTC)

I have a question
Good day/afternoon/evening kind sir! I come to you tonight (its night time in my country) with a simple request. You see, I'm a frequent reader (and made some very minor edits) of this wiki and have seen a lot of screenshots from the PSP installments of MGS. I'm in desperate need of looking for a way to take screenshots, and would just like to know if you have the knowledge of doing so. If you don't know how, then can you point me to the ones who know how? Please, I've been searching Google for hours now. Thanks in advance :D War Clown 15:10, June 19, 2010 (UTC)

Damn, I'm on a wild goose chase here. Well, thanks anyway :D War Clown 06:53, June 20, 2010 (UTC)

RE:The canon question
Sounds good to me. If there's anything I don't like, I'll speak up about it. --Fantomas 12:59, June 24, 2010 (UTC)

Assumptions
Never state an assumption as fact, especially if you're not too certain about it. "When you assume things, you're only making an 'ass' out of 'u' and 'me'." I'm not sure how you were convinced that they were anything other than Drama CD art, since the only section where they appear in the "Art of MGS1" book is in the "illustration for goods" section and Shinkawa clearly states in the English text that its artwork he was commissioned to illustrate for the Drama CDs. Concept artwork are usually uncolored. Arkhound 15:13, July 11, 2010 (UTC)

You should add an "alternate history" section to Liquid Snake's section.
http://metalgear.wikia.com/wiki/Liquid_Snake Sknmak 13:27, July 24, 2010 (UTC)

I was referring to the strategy guide. --Sknmak 13:42, July 24, 2010 (UTC)

Favorite chracter.
Who is your favourtie person in the MGS series?

RE: Chico Tapes
Well, to answer your question about ZEKE, what you need to do is complete ZEKE (that is, get all the main parts as well as the Railgun from Chrysalis), and then complete a few Extra Ops missions (assuming, of course, you've already completed the first six Zadornov capture missions), and then play EX001 and go up a flight of stairs as Big Boss. After that, the fight against ZEKE and Paz will be unlocked.

Since you're most likely not going to bother doing the Monster Hunter Missions, I guess I'll post the script here:

=====Gear REX===== [CHICO]

Have you heard the legend about the dinosaur that came back to life as a zombie and attacked people?

[SNAKE]

Zombie?! You mean the living dead?

[CHICO]

Yeah. Dinosaurs may be extinct, but technically it would be possible for one to come back to life as a zombie.

[SNAKE]

Not so fast. Dinosaurs were real, zombies... not so much.

[CHICO]

What are you talking about, Boss! Zombies have been used as slaves on Haitian plantations for years. In Haiti they've handed down a secret zombie powder for generations.

[SNAKE]

...Really?

[CHICO]

People from long ago must have used that same stuff on dinosaur remains.

[SNAKE]

But dinosaurs had been extinct for millions of years before the first humans-

[CHICO]

That hypothesis has to be wrong. ...In any case, this zombie was incredibly powerful. Its name was Gear REX. They say nothing could kill it. Some say its bodily fluids would burn right through your flesh. Then the spines that fell off its back would impale you, the pain made even worse by the deafening roar rattling every bone in your body.

[SNAKE]

...You sure it wasn't just some really strong monster? Who knows what kind of dinosaurs were out there. We could be talking about something strong enough to resist small arms fire.

[CHICO]

Are you afraid of zombies, Boss?

[SNAKE]

...No. I just find the whole thing hard to believe.

Weedle McHairybug 21:06, July 26, 2010 (UTC)

Dude, I don't consider you my enemy.
I don't hate you either. I just don't like you. I admit I was wrong about Johnson not being the guy Ocelot spoke to after sinking the Tanker incident. I'm sorry I was a jackass in regards to that. As for the B&B members, I actually liked them. Laughing Octopus is the best one. Personally, I think it's obvious that they are dead. And I have to agree with that Otness guy about Coldman being the deviously cunning strategist. Other than those two things, I have no problem with you. Again, I'm sorry for being a jackass to you and Otness. I'm not as bad as Crashsnake.72.186.97.84 16:22, July 28, 2010 (UTC)


 * Yeah, I'm pretty sure that you aren't an enemy, even if you aren't the nicest guy in the world. Trust me, I've dealt with much worse on Bulbagarden's Mysterious Garden as well as Serebii.net Forums. To be honest, I somewhat deduced that Coldman was most likely the guy when I saw that scene on JustinTV.com when the Japanese version was released. I also showed my Mom and Dad the scene in question, and they said that it was very likely that Coldman most likely set The Boss up, and my parents didn't even play or even care to know about Portable Ops or even any Metal Gear game. Dad was completely by accident, though, as my original intention was whether someone in the CIA, if they had to eliminate a traitor during the Cold War, would act the way Coldman would act as I had serious doubts that a CIA member, or any sane person, would actually act like Coldman in regards to eliminating a traitor. However, it did indirectly deal with the whole debate, as Olivier Hague didn't seem sold on the idea that he was the guy. I mentioned that his acting like that, including having a lot of dislike for The Boss would actually make it more likely for him to set her up, and I even cited Carl Grissom set up Jack Napier in the 1989 Batman movie, yet he not only didn't agree, he considered me to have bizzaro logic. Weedle McHairybug 18:24, July 28, 2010 (UTC)

Infobox Mech needs to be fixed
Ok, Bluerock, I think you may need to fix some glitches with the Mech Infobox, as I've tried to edit it twice now, and even when I click the edit button, it still somehow manages to delete it. Weedle McHairybug 02:29, August 23, 2010 (UTC)

RE:Bloody Brad Image
I uploaded a GIF version as every Outer Heaven Mercenary page has a GIF apart from Bloody Brad, so i made one and uploaded it, plus a GIF is much easier to use if someone is using it to make a picture, sorry if i have cvaused any inconvienience - Dirty Duck

Where did you get the name Bluerock from?
It's a strange name. 72.186.99.104 16:49, September 2, 2010 (UTC)


 * "Blue Rock" is just a free translation of my surname and forename. Anyway, how come you don't have a username? You certainly edit here often enough.


 * You are correct about my not being convinced that Coldman is the strategist that Gene spoke of, due to the ambiguous dialogue in both Portable Ops and Peace Walker, but to say he is for sure, without any real confirmation, just seems like fan deduction. I have no problem with the possibility being mentioned in Behind the Scenes, but stating with certainty that he is the strategist in the main article just seems to go against basic Wiki practise. If something is unclear, in terms of story, its just best to let the reader of the article make his/her own conclusion, based on what we do know. I'm aware that you yourself think its completely clear, but I think it's more that you just accept that it's so, on a lack of any other info, as it was for the MGS3 DCI before him.


 * For all I know, you may be right. Perhaps it will be clarified in the future, and there will no longer be any doubt. But until then, I think the article can be modified so as not to confirm anything. It wouldn't even change it that much, considering that there's only a tiny section on Portable Ops in there. I'd rather not get into a silly edit war about the whole thing but the point does need addressing in some way.


 * Besides, what's an MGS game without its canon controversies, eh? It's become something of a hallmark for the series lately.


 * --Bluerock 18:11, September 2, 2010 (UTC)

Help!
Bluerock, its Gene Force, but the thing is, I forgot my password for my other account, so just so you know, I'm going to reside on this account, just to tell you SolidSnake32 23:17, September 5, 2010 (UTC)

Solidus's death
He died, but his body was kept alive artificially. The body cannot live without the brain, so brain-dead is an accurate term to use. Brain-dead people cannot come back to life. This was different to Big Boss, whose consciousness was suppressed by nanomachines and was not brain-dead. --Bluerock 20:58, September 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * A person is 100% dead when ALL vital organs cease functioning. He was in a coma but he was alive. His heart was still beating and his lungs were still functioning. 100% dead people's hearts don't beat and they don't breath. Why you can't accept this is still a mystery to me. Oh, and vladimir lenin's body hasn't decomposed. We should use the same technology to keep him alive. JamesMason1 12:35, September 11, 2010 (UTC)
 * I don't understand your logic. A person is dead by definition once they are brain dead. Solidus was not in a coma. People do not recover from brain death, do not confuse it with persistant vegitative state. And yes, you can maintain circulation, heart rate, and breathing, nutrition within a dead person, provided the body is essentially intact and life support equipment is used very soon afterwards, if not immediately. Unless you wanted to maintain a person's organs for donation, there is no reason to keep a body on life support. Solidus's body was maintained for reconstructing Big Boss and for access to SOP, which is an unusual case compared with reality. Parts of Liquid's body must also have been kept alive, but he himself was clearly dead. --Bluerock 15:51, September 11, 2010 (UTC)
 * Ariel Sharon is not brain dead, he is in a permanent vegetative state. Again, you are confusing the terms. --Bluerock 16:51, September 11, 2010 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure whether you checked that Wikipedia link on brain-death, but I found this interesting article from back in 2001, which seems to show that this confusion of the term "brain-dead" is more widespread than I initially believed. --Bluerock 18:02, September 11, 2010 (UTC)
 * I was wrong about Ariel Sharon but i wasn't trying to confuse him with something else. Brain dead means a person is basically unconscious. No sign of emotion or personality at all. Zero did look brain dead but i couldn't tell whether his eyes were open. He definitely felt pain though.--JamesMason1 19:09, September 11, 2010 (UTC)
 * Brain-dead is NOT the same as being unconscious at all. There is no brain function or activity whatsoever in a brain dead individual and it is irreversible, meaning the person has passed on. Solidus's body was simply a reanimated corpse. Check the MGS4 Database entry on Biomort Unconsciousness, on the other hand, is complete or near complete lack of response to stimuli, but brain activity remains, and the person is very much alive. A comatose or vegetative state are examples of unconsciousness, of which Big Boss (after Zanzibar Land) and Zero (at old age) were in. Hope that makes it more clear. --Bluerock 19:46, September 11, 2010 (UTC)

I agree with JamesMason1. Solidus was defeated by Raiden in 2009, but did not die. Transplant organs degrade within 24 hours according to Wikipedia. He was kept alive so his organs could be transplanted into Big Boss. If he had died in 2009, his organs would have been useless. It doesnt matter that his organs were kept running by machines. His heart was beating and that means he was alive. Trut-h-urts man 22:59, September 12, 2010 (UTC)
 * That only means that they recovered his body within 24 hours. He is not in a coma, he is brain dead, terms which are commonly confused. --Bluerock 23:03, September 12, 2010 (UTC)
 * While that does mean his body was recovered in 24 hours, his organs were not transplanted till 2014. I never claimed he was in a coma, thats JamesMason1's arguement. Brain dead, while just about as close to being dead as one can be, does NOT mean dead. Artificial life is still life. While he has no brain function, his heart beats inside his body, circulating blood to his organs, keeping them alive as well. If they had removed his organs after recovering his body, and tossed away the remains (the empty body) then yes, he would be considered dead in 2009. Since they didn't do that, he died in 2014. Trut-h-urts man 23:17, September 12, 2010 (UTC)
 * The infobox is not concerned with artificial life, only the character/person himself. No one is saying that his body was not kept alive, but the individual known as "Solidus Snake" has passed on. --Bluerock 23:20, September 12, 2010 (UTC)
 * I still believe the article should reflect the death of the person of which the article is concerned (i.e. in MGS2), and not simply living remains that used to be Solidus, but I'll leave the article as is, as some people seem to have trouble grasping that the two are seperate things. Most likely because his body was kept intact, though it is no different to keeping cells and body parts alive after a person's death. The presence of a heartbeat was once considered the determining factor of whether a person was alive, but this view is no longer taken, thanks to advances in scientific understanding.
 * I suppose the issue is based on what one views as life's end. Whereas Solidus's life ended in brain death in 2009, his former body's life continued, in a fashion, until it's destruction in 2014.--Bluerock 19:54, September 13, 2010 (UTC)
 * I altered the article infobox a little to define that the time of his brain death was in 2009, but also mentioned his clinical death in 2014. I believe this is the best solution, seeing as the single word "death" would lead one to think he was only in a coma during that time. Despite all its other inconsistencies, the MGS4 Database at least considered brain death as the indicator of Solidus's death, if not his body's death. --Bluerock 20:47, September 15, 2010 (UTC)
 * I altered the article infobox a little to define that the time of his brain death was in 2009, but also mentioned his clinical death in 2014. I believe this is the best solution, seeing as the single word "death" would lead one to think he was only in a coma during that time. Despite all its other inconsistencies, the MGS4 Database at least considered brain death as the indicator of Solidus's death, if not his body's death. --Bluerock 20:47, September 15, 2010 (UTC)

Well, SORRY!
Unlike you, I'm not a genius or studying medicine and science in college. All I know is that It takes both male and female dna to make a child. In a way, Snake and Liquid have two mothers but I guess you could say EVA counts the most, as she gave birth to them. FrankHunter 14:04, September 13, 2010 (UTC)

I'm confused!
How would it be an accurate translation? The re-release was made AFTER MGS and MGS2. Why would the re-release still have the Outer Heaven incident has happening in 1996 instead of 1995? Also, there are several translation mistakes like Big Boss saying "somewhere of the world" and Kasler saying "a like a god". I'm slow so please explain this to me step by step. 70.127.205.86 12:13, September 14, 2010 (UTC)
 * Sorry, I meant that it was an accurate translation of the original MSX game from 1990, before they established that the Outer Heaven Uprising took place in 1995, in MGS's Previous Operations. There are other instances of this too, such as Kasler still mentioning that Big Boss lost his eye in Outer Heaven. Why they didn't correct the dialogue for the update I don't know, maybe they just forgot about it. I don't know if they even did it for the Japanese mobile phone release, prior to Subsistence. --Bluerock 12:52, September 14, 2010 (UTC)
 * Ok, ok, I'm just saying. To be honest, I was confused when Snake said he wanted to get rid of the nightmares he had for "three years" instead of four years.--70.127.205.86 14:39, September 14, 2010 (UTC)
 * Well, it's not that big a stretch to think that Snake's nightmares only began a year afterwards, but Kasler's mention of Outer Heaven having been destroyed at the same time, means that he did actually suffer from them soon after the event.
 * On a related note, I sometimes wonder whether it was originally intended that the Uprising began in 1995, but the West only learned of Metal Gear's development a year later, in 1996. The reason for my curiosity is that the timeline given in the MSX2 manual for MG2 places the uprising in 1995, but places the development of the first Metal Gear (TX-55) in 1996. Granted, this info comes from a third-party translation, but the guy who wrote it was also involved in the official translation for the re-releases of the MSX2 games, so I believe he is credible. The original game (MG1) itself never specified a date for the events, only giving the year 19XX. Regardless, all recent accounts have seemingly placed both events as having happened in 1995. --Bluerock 18:25, September 14, 2010 (UTC)

I never thought you were being funny.
It's just that you don't see them waking up and running away with Ocelot. The cutscenes in the Metal Gear games (especially after the last fight with the Haven troopers in MGS4) make it clear that knocking out enemies during mandatory fights is clearly not canon. Same thing with the boss fights with the Dead Cell and Cobra Units. Fatman dying after being shot with the tranquilizer gun just doesn't make sense. I still believe that Snake killed the B&B members too but whatever. 70.127.205.86 18:58, September 15, 2010 (UTC)
 * Snake shoots them and then their suits burn to a crisp. That's it. It looks funny. The point is it just doesn't make sense to knock them out and then kill them. Anyway, thanks for adding the clinical death link. I wasn't trying to suggest that a loved one could recover from brain death. That's sadly not possible. I'm just saying that the person is technically still alive because the other organs are still active. That's it. What about Zero? Was he brain-dead or a vegetable? --70.127.205.86 21:36, September 15, 2010 (UTC)
 * Ah, in that case he did at least kill some of the Haven Troopers, as evidenced in the cutscene. The Ocelot's fates are still ambiguous, though. At least in that battle, they weren't aware of his exact location, so he could have taken them out non-lethally.
 * Regarding Solidus, his brain death was truly the end of his existence as a "person," and in my view, his true death. But I can see how the confusion arises, and the whole debate begins to border on the very question, "What is life/death," which gets a bit too philosophical, so I hope the compromise is acceptable for all. --Bluerock 21:46, September 15, 2010 (UTC)
 * Regarding Zero, I'm not sure whether he was in a coma or merely suffering the debilitating effects of his advanced years. --Bluerock 21:59, September 15, 2010 (UTC)

Is there any voice acting in Metal Gear Acid?
Just wondering. I've seen gameplay videos but the two Acid games look like hard games. Constantly using cards to move and shoot has got to be tedious. Ghost Babel was a lot better though that cardboard box puzzle is almost impossible to beat without help from the internet. Anyway, I didn't even realize that the "Tobidacid" goggles that Snake mentioned to Otacon was an Acid reference until I searched for info about it online. I have to agree with you on Snake's Revenge though. Kojima wasn't even involved with the game. I don't think the CQC stuff in MGS4 was a reference to it.--72.186.99.244 21:10, September 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * I think someone mentioned something about the characters uttering grunts when hit, which would need voice acting to pull off. Other than that, I don't know. BTW, why did you remove the whole "hints at Raikov's demise even if you knocked him out" part in the Behind the Scenes section? Weedle McHairybug 21:15, September 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * Yeah, that's why I asked Bluerock, not you. --72.186.99.244 22:04, September 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * There is definitely a limited amount of voice acting in the second game, but I don't recall right now whether there was any in the first one. The Acid titles were actually pretty good, some of the best on the PSP, if you're into strategy sort of games. Still got all the stealth-based gameplay and interesting, twisting, storytelling of the regular series; just isn't action-based, which some fans prefer.
 * Ghost Babel was awesome too, but yeah, the cardboard box thing was ridiculous, unless you wrote down every single route to take on the conveyer belts. I started playing Snake's Revenge, but just moving to the next screen is sometimes impossible without being spotted (unless you keep saving state on an emulator, which is boring), so I gave up on that for now. Looks better than MG1 though, except for Snake's awful appearance.
 * Also, when exactly did Snake and Otacon mention "Tobidacid"? I know that the "SolidEye" was the name originally given to those goggles, way before MGS4.
 * --Bluerock 06:14, September 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * Now that I think about it, there was indeed a little voice acting in MGA1 (again, mainly grunts and bits of dialogue during gameplay). I'm not sure if the actors were listed in the game's end credits though, I would have to check back on that. --Bluerock 12:03, September 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * That optional codec conversation happens after Snake gets the SolidEye. And yeah, Snake's Revenge is HARD! Just trying to avoid the searchlights and avoid being spotted during the side-scrolling sequences is almost impossible.

Anyway, the only reason I asked about Acid is because I don't see any voice credits on the page. --72.186.99.244 13:23, September 27, 2010 (UTC)

http://metalgear.wikia.com/wiki/Metal_Gear_Acid
 * Well, that's because you removed them, which was probably the right thing to do, seeing as Snake, nor Teliko had any voice acting in MGA1 that I can recall, not even grunts. Only the enemy soldiers and the character Leone had some limited voice acting, that I can remember. I think somebody just assumed that Snake was voiced by Hayter, like MGA2, and that Teliko was voiced by the actress who did some minor voicework for her in the later Portable Ops, without really checking. --Bluerock 20:47, September 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * I only removed two names. That's it. I was talking about other characters. Never mind. --72.186.99.244 20:56, September 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * I know that. That's why I said it was a good call, regarding the two actors that you removed (Snake's and Teliko's), for the reasons that I mentioned above. Anyway, I recommend both Acid games if you ever happen to come across them. --Bluerock 21:09, September 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * Yeah, the only Metal Gear games I haven't played are the Acid games, Snake Tales and Metal Gear Solid: Mobile. I don't have a cell phone. --72.186.99.244 21:40, September 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * I haven't played the mobile game either. I think you need the Nokia N-Gage or something, so I probably won't bother with that one myself. --Bluerock 07:54, September 28, 2010 (UTC)

70.127.205.40/72.186.99.244
Wow, it didn't take long for you to bring out the racial stereotypes. You seem to have a real problem with people undoing your edits, regardless of whether you're actually right or wrong. Considering you're a contributor who is usually opposed to assumptions being made, I'm surprised you're this obsessed over the issue. And your age is of no concern to me, I judge you by the abusive cursing and foul attitude you consistently display throughout all your edit comments. You've been the same since before I even edited on this site. --Bluerock 14:34, October 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * You're just going to have to put up with him unfortunatley, he works his way around bannings. And yes, everytime he has registered I have banned him. He uses racial stereotypes to insult people when he can't be bothered to back up his edits, personally I find it ammusing when he refers to us British folks as "limeys" and tells us to go drink tea or whatever, just makes him seem even more like a petty fool. I'd love to set up some sort standards to edit by, but he'll probably just ignore them. To be honest, I feel like this site is pretty much (excluding some minor things) the best it can be until Rising comes out. --Fantomas 19:56, October 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * He was clearly raping him. Even the music suggests that. You (Fantomas) call me an idiot yet you can't even block me permanently. You even believe that Big Boss's real name is John Doe. I'm glad I pissed you off. It makes me laugh. Get a life and go outside. As for the racial stereotypes, I only used that to piss you and Bluerock off. The only British people I actually hate are you and Bluerock. 70.127.205.40 12
 * 42, October 8, 2010 (UTC)
 * Hey, I know you have issues against Bluerock and Fantomas, but can you please not insult them. I don't usually insult any people who did ill will to me on the various forums, so I suggest you don't either. It's better that way. However, I will admit that you do have a point about Volgin possibly raping Raiden. I mean, given Raiden's natural resemblance to Raikov, it's very likely that he didn't ever realize the mistake. For the record, I find the practice, willing or unwilling, to be quite distasteful. Weedle McHairybug 13:09, October 8, 2010 (UTC)
 * I didn't say I support rape. I'm just saying what is implied in the video. He clearly didn't just punch him. I'm not the only person in the world who thinks Volgin raped Raiden. --70.127.205.40 13:21, October 8, 2010 (UTC)
 * Ha! Your excuses for making racist remarks is laughable itself. Your internet hatred and racism is really quite pitiful. Perhaps you should take your own advice, IP, quit trolling, and make some relevant contributions to this Wiki for once. But if ya can't learn anything in a whole year, I guess you'll always be that way. You won't accept Big Boss's real name being John Doe for the exact same reason that the Wiki doesn't accept explicitly describing the actions of a character that cannot be verified. Double standards indeed, as well as sloppy editing. --Bluerock 18:14, October 8, 2010 (UTC)
 * Jeez, I turn around for one second and he's already insulting another user. Pathetic!--Bluerock 18:20, October 8, 2010 (UTC)
 * Your stupidity is pitiful. I'm not a racist. You're a retard and a nasty human being.--70.127.205.40 18:44, October 8, 2010 (UTC)
 * A non-racist who makes racist remarks? That's a new one. And you say I'm nasty? (rolls eyes) As I said, quit trolling, it'll do you good. --Bluerock 18:59, October 8, 2010 (UTC)
 * Ok, both of you, cut it with the insults! Look, I am not someone who likes people insulting each other, especially given my experiences on what users are usually like on BMGf, so for the love of the world, just stop getting at each others throats. If you aren't going to agree, then at LEAST try to do so diplomatically to the best of your abilities. Weedle McHairybug 18:49, October 8, 2010 (UTC)
 * My insults are at least justified, and nowhere near as offensive as his. If he wants to continue some kind of pathetic feud, that's his problem. You don't have to read this talk page. --Bluerock 19:10, October 8, 2010 (UTC)

RE: Real life photos
Makes sense to me. As long as the pictures are of a decent quality, I'm fine with it. --Fantomas 10:33, October 17, 2010 (UTC)

Re images on minor characters

 * First of all you added some of those images as well and made the page more boring by removing and convincing Fanatomas to delete them way to the page and also they were added there to add proof that this website is not some stupid plain texture, I am demmanding the images be re uploaded and I do not care what you or Fantatomas say or think or do. Kennedy 3421 08:55, October 20, 2010 (UTC)Kennedy 3421

True but......
Snake even said in the conversation that van der Waals force proved that Vamp didn't have supernatural powers, hence van der Waals force allowed him to walk and sit on water. Comparing games to real life is irrelevant. In real life, we can't even walk on water and climb walls. In the Metal Gear universe, van der Waals force clearly allowed him to do so. FrankHunter 11:01, November 17, 2010 (UTC)


 * Sigh....fine, you're right. They didn't mention water. But still, I think it's obvious that Vamp walked on water because of the van der Waals force. The only thing that was never explained (in my opinion) was how Vamp managed to jump to the second floor of that special water room. --FrankHunter 17:48, November 21, 2010 (UTC)



The game's script?
Where did you get that? Please show it to me or at least mention where you got it. How ironic though. At first you said it was Johnson. Now you say it wasn't him. Didn't Otacon point out to Raiden that Solidus was in hiding at the time, hence he was not the guy Ocelot was talking to? I guess I need to play the game again to check out all of the codec conversations. 72.186.98.216 14:00, November 23, 2010 (UTC)


 * I think he's referring to the Document of MGS2, which also included the copy of the script. Weedle McHairybug 15:21, November 23, 2010 (UTC)


 * Yes, the script can also be found in the Document. Outside of a casual mention that Ocelot contacts Solidus after the RAY hijacking, there is nothing more said on it. And I already mentioned in the edit comment about Snake's and Raiden's conversation implying otherwise (also in the script), which still makes it completely ambiguous.
 * Additionally, I never once stated that it was definitely Johnson; I simply put forth the implication made by the game itself that Ocelot was speaking to a U.S. President other than Solidus. Just as I am now not saying that it was definitely Solidus; I've merely relayed what the actual script says.
 * Anyway, I guess it'll never be known for sure. I think it still deserves a mention as a plot hole in a "Behind the scenes" section somewhere (doesn't have to be Johnson's article), as I've always maintained from the start, just like mention of other plot holes throughout the series.
 * --Bluerock 16:08, November 23, 2010 (UTC)

SOP preventing Human Rights abuses.
I know Roy Campbell said that the SOP system prevented Human Rights abuses, but several instances indicated that it really didn't and if anything increased them, even stuff Roy Campbell said later on. For one thing, according to a later statement that Roy Campbell stated, Child Soldiers and war refugees were actually increasing as a direct result of the War Economy's creation, and not only that, but due to this, the age to join a PMC was actually shrinking as well. The PMCs were also heavily implied to be under direct control of the SOP system (Just look at what happened to the Praying Mantis camp after Liquid Ocelot's botched attempt at accessing the SOP system with "his own" DNA chip, not to mention the camp where the Pieuvre Armament was holding the rebels prisoner, and the implied breakdown of the Pieuvre Armament as a result of the second failure to hijack the SOP system). If the SOP system was supposed to cut down on human rights abuses, then wouldn't they logically decrease the amount of Child Soldiers employed and decrease the amount of refugees created, not to mention not utilize prison camps? I mean, all those things are human rights abuses, really. I might be mistaking it for something else, but it logically doesn't add up. Weedle McHairybug 00:00, November 27, 2010 (UTC)


 * The increase of child soldiers and war refugees could be just due to the general increase of the amount of conflicts all around the world. In fact, it's possible that the parents of the child soldiers were soldiers (or combatients) themselves. More so, the child soldiers probably never fought for the major PMCs (under SOP control) like the Outer Haven PMCs. And war refugees are that, refugees of war (not necesarily victims of war atrocities). - Marcaurelix


 * When he said "Human Rights abuse", I thought he was specifically talking about massacres on civilians (I know he said something about avoiding needless massacres). So my guess is, while the PMCs don't actually shoot the civilians, they still cause damage to their homes and in effect create refugees. Don't take my word for it, I haven't played in a while. --AntonImaus 11:45, December 2, 2010 (UTC)

Liquid Sun elaboration.
The Morocco thing was covered in the Talk page of Liquid Sun. I'll even get the actual statement from the user:

Middle East? Edit
The credits indicate the location is actually Morocco. That's in North Africa, not the Middle East. Evil Tim 07:45, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
 * It might be based on Morocco, but Kojima Productions themselves frequently refer to the area as the Middle East. Even the game itself refers to it as the Middle East. It's a simple error. --Fantomas 11:22, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

Retrieved from "http://metalgear.wikia.com/wiki/Talk:Liquid_Sun" If you want to ask anyone, you're going to have to ask Evil Tim. Weedle McHairybug 21:11, November 28, 2010 (UTC)

Mr. Gorman, eh?
Judging by your first name, I should call you Mr. Stillman instead. :P 72.186.99.227 17:23, December 1, 2010 (UTC)


 * That's cool, Frank. --Bluerock 18:33, December 1, 2010 (UTC)


 * Frank Hunter is not my real name. I simply used that name from Portable Ops to create my account. Remember Gray Fox? Sorry. :P --72.186.99.227 19:01, December 1, 2010 (UTC)


 * Well, duh! It gets a bit tedious typing out your IP address, so hope you don't mind if I refer to you as such. :D --Bluerock 19:09, December 1, 2010 (UTC)


 * Well, too bad. You'll have to deal with it. Revealing your true identity in the internet is retarded. I never have understood the whole "MySpace" and "Facebook" fad. XD --70.127.202.197 18:52, December 6, 2010 (UTC)


 * Yeah, I should watch out for perverts like yourself, eh? --Bluerock 18:58, December 6, 2010 (UTC)


 * How the hell am I a pervert? Do you even know what the word means? --70.127.202.197 19:00, December 6, 2010 (UTC)


 * Searching the internet for a photo of me, because you have some issues. Yeah, kinda creepy. --Bluerock 19:12, December 6, 2010 (UTC)


 * Wanting to know what a person looks like doesn't make a person a pervert. Perversion is about sexual matters. Two different things. Next time, don't post your real name on the internet. :P --70.127.202.197 19:17, December 6, 2010 (UTC)
 * Actually, its not solely sexual matters, smartass. And I've got no problem with you knowing my name. The worst you can do is come up with some lame insults, which only make you look like an idiot in the end. Seriously, get over the internet hate thing. --Bluerock 19:22, December 6, 2010 (UTC)

What does book gutter and watermark mean?
I've never heard of the former but I've heard of the latter. 72.186.98.71 13:29, December 3, 2010 (UTC)


 * Basically, the gutter is the inside middle of the book, where the pages are stapled/adhered together. Watermarks are just those little ugly pictures that websites print onto images, just to say "this is mine, this was uploaded here, visit us!", advertising sort of thing.--Bluerock 13:49, December 3, 2010 (UTC)


 * Going by the conversation, I'm guessing that the proximity trigger would accelerate the countdown procedure, seeing how Stillman had about thirty seconds left on his end when attempting to warn Raiden and Pliskin about it, and it detonating before the one at Shell 1 detonated even though both ran under the same time counter. Weedle McHairybug 19:00, December 7, 2010 (UTC)

How and when do you get that conversation?
I called the Colonel after getting the M9, M4 and AKS74U but he doesn't say that conversation. Please explain. Riddlebox89 20:49, December 11, 2010 (UTC)
 * Sure. Acquire the M9 in Strut F and call the Colonel. Possibly have to do it before getting the SOCOM. --Bluerock 20:56, December 11, 2010 (UTC)
 * Isn't that only possible in the easy mode? I did get the Jim Suit conversation but I didn't get the "Rosemary discovers Fatman's last bomb" conversation. Anyway, I did call the Colonel in Strut F before but it didn't work. I'll try again later. --Riddlebox89 21:00, December 11, 2010 (UTC)
 * No, its also in the Normal mode. The door to the M9's location doesn't require a key card. --Bluerock 21:02, December 11, 2010 (UTC)
 * What I mean is it's only possible to get the M9 BEFORE getting the Socom in Easy mode. I'll just have to keep calling the Colonel. --Riddlebox89 21:04, December 11, 2010 (UTC)
 * No, you can head to Strut F right from the start, before even encountering Pliskin, Vamp and the SEALs. In Easy mode, yes, it is already there in the deep sea dock. --Bluerock 21:22, December 11, 2010 (UTC)
 * Oh, sorry about that. That does make sense. That might be the reason I didn't get the conversation. Thanks for the explanation. --Riddlebox89 21:33, December 11, 2010 (UTC)

Actually, I'm not the person who made that comment on Weedle's page.
I have no idea who that guy is. In case you hadn't noticed, he was calling ME a dipshit, not Weedle. And why would I create an imaginary user for support? You're a strange guy. Have a Merry Christmas. 70.126.139.228 19:12, December 16, 2010 (UTC)


 * Yeah, I realized that when I saw he had actually quoted you, as I didn't think that another unknown contributor would join in. Anyway, Merry Christmas to you too, "James." ;) --Bluerock 19:38, December 16, 2010 (UTC)

Seriously, I'm confused.
How is it ambiguously canon? Yeah, I know about Ocelot but that R1 cutscene is hidden. D's appearance is not hidden. I'm not a Metal Gear expert so please forgive my ignorance. Why is it hard to believe that Granin did not design D like he did with REX? 70.126.139.249 20:43, January 8, 2011 (UTC)


 * Actually, D's appearance is hidden, just like Ocelot's was. You have to manually move the camera to the extreme right to even catch a glimpse of it. Even then, only the main body resembles D.
 * The original games always described D as a revised design of Pettrovich's original TX-55, so it doesn't even make sense in that regard. I know it's easy to call retcon on it, like with REX, but it seemed like nothing more than a wink to older fans. At least the designs of RAXA and ZEKE suggested that Granin really did design REX (though personally I think that plot idea was taken a bit too literally, with the 21st century railgun-launched nukes and Otacon's exposed Radome "character flaw" thrown in there).
 * Anyway, it's best not to assume one way or the other, unless there's better evidence to support it. --Bluerock 21:17, January 8, 2011 (UTC)
 * As you would say, the REX picture doesn't really exist. It's just a wink for fans. ;) The other pictures of REX are canon though. They are clearly drawn. --70.126.139.249 22:10, January 8, 2011 (UTC)
 * The RAY toy was clearly rendered too, so that's not really a good argument. Anyway, like I said, the PSP games suggest that the MGS1 REX designs were indeed canon. --Bluerock 22:50, January 8, 2011 (UTC)
 * Ray was in the blueprints? I thought he simply appeared as a toy in the background. I know that the toys are not canon. I wasn't talking about them. I was talking about the blueprints. One of them looks exactly like the REX from Shadow Moses. The other blueprints from the second R1 cutscene are just drawings of REX. I wasn't able to see the blueprints from the first R1 cutscene. They were too dark. --70.126.139.249 12:54, January 9, 2011 (UTC)
 * Regarding your first point, I was merely saying that there is no real difference where an easter egg appears, whether in a blueprint, or as a toy model, or as a photo in a locker, or whatever. RAY isn't in the blueprints from what I remember. --Bluerock 13:14, January 9, 2011 (UTC)
 * I'll explain. According to the Director's commentary for Metal Gear Solid 3, the guys stated that the blueprints that Granin shows Snake were of REX and RAY. You can find it on here. http://muni_shinobu.webs.com/mgs3/commentary3.html According to it, there were also originally supposed to be failed experiments on the Metal Gears, but those were cut from the final version apparently. Weedle McHairybug 13:21, January 9, 2011 (UTC)
 * You seem to enjoy getting into conversations that have nothing to do with you. --72.186.97.26 16:42, January 10, 2011 (UTC)
 * Hey, I was only replying about the RAY thing because you guys were wondering the source about the RAY being in the blueprints part. Weedle McHairybug 17:25, January 10, 2011 (UTC)
 * Just ignore him, Weedle. Anyone is free to comment on my page. --Bluerock 20:49, January 11, 2011 (UTC)

The soundtrack means NOTHING!
As Naomi said, that tune is Mantis's mind control music.

Naomi: "He's controlling Meryl. That tune is his mind control music".

Like I said. Get a brain, dumbass. --72.186.97.26 16:13, January 11, 2011 (UTC)


 * Gee, like I'm not aware of that particular dialogue. Otacon also comments on the music, but he clearly can't hear through Snake's Codec, a device that is repeatedly described as being inaudible to people other than the user. The soundtrack is a clue to the player regarding Meryl's whereabouts. Get a life, dipshit, and quit trolling. --Bluerock 20:21, January 11, 2011 (UTC)


 * Yeah, yet Meryl can hear Snake's codec ringing at the end of the game. Every time you speak, you prove that you are stupider and stupider. I suggest you get a brain and a life you fucking retard. I feel sorry for your parents. They must have been twins to produce a kid as stupid as you. :P --72.186.97.26 20:25, January 11, 2011 (UTC)

Issues, much? --Bluerock 20:32, January 11, 2011 (UTC)


 * This is what a retard does: instigate a stupid flame war by personally attacking a user over an edit that they did not even make. Common sense would dictate that you talk your issues over on the relevant discussion page rather than descend into internet fanboy rage. Then again, you've shown consistently that you can't even construct or participate in a proper argument, nor articulate your points clearly.


 * Not ONCE in this conversation (if you could even call it that) did I state that Snake, Naomi, or Otacon broke the fourth wall with their references to the game's soundtrack. Dialogue can reference things outside the game world WITHOUT overtly breaking the fourth wall. A prime example is Big Boss's HALO mask, which even your God Kojima himself states is a reference to Raiden's mask in MGS2, AS WELL AS "Gasp!" that movie Para-Medic mentions. But yeah, it doesn't break the fourth wall outright in the dialogue. Too bad you get too hot under the collar to coherently express your point to that Scarab guy, and just rage about how everyone's supposedly a retard when you don't get your way (going on a year now; sad really). Nobody's ever going to take that childish attitude seriously, are they?


 * You don't have to believe that those references exist, but seriously, get the fuck over yourself, accept that there will always be some who disagree with you, and come back to the real world. Too bad this post will probably go straight over your head and you'll continue your constant trolling of the wiki. Oh well. --Bluerock 00:33, January 13, 2011 (UTC)

My! You use such foul language!
Are you frustrated about something? You call me poor kid? I'm 23. Probably around the same age as you. I love your patronizing and condescending attitude. Too bad you like the B&B members so much that you can't accept that killing them is canon. Too bad that you also can't accept that Solidus was still alive in 2014. Too bad you also can't accept that Ocelot was talking to The Patriots AI instead of President Johnson during the Tanker Incident.

Oh and I never said that Kojima is my god. But then again, pissing you off is fun. :P

Params7 15:01, January 13, 2011 (UTC)


 * Thanks for proving my point, troll. I see you can't get over those other topics you seemed to have obsessive issues over, and constantly quote your age to me, as if it somehow makes you less of an immature asshole (something you, yourself, have freely admitted to in the past). No idea why you complain about language all the time, considering you're the biggest culprit here; quite bizarre. --Bluerock 16:52, January 13, 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for the support. I guess your my first friend on this wikia. Excluding Next Gen, Shelly, and Noname. Sonic &amp; Scrab  Master   Kongosoha!  19:03, January 13, 2011 (UTC)

Peace Walker images
Everytime I use the Camera Item in the game it will always brand it with the logo. This is Konami's issue with game content. {C}Sorry I can't help.

Thank you, Bluerock!
For once, you are useful. I got the guide in June 2008 when I bought the game. It shows a lot of info about the plot. It's not an ordinary guide. I eventually threw it away when I beat the game. As you see, it's not hard to believe that EVA never knew that Ocelot was faking it. Even Konami said it.

By the way, I never actually edited any plot information on the Acid pages. I just edited the voice actors section. Sometimes, it's better to play the games before editing plot information. Weedle stated that Para-Medic spoke French at one point. That's false. The Subsistence version screwed up the translation of the conversation. She never actually speaks French at all. --98.221.196.38 19:29, February 12, 2011 (UTC)


 * Hey, the reason why I said that was because this FAQ pretty much mentioned the french translation part without even mentioning that it was a glitch. Now, if I can find a place that actually rents PS2 consoles so I won't have to buy them, I'll make absolute certain to play Metal Gear Solid 2 and 3 and record every single conversation to utilize. Until then, this is the best I can do.


 * And anyways, can you please explain why EVA showed Solid Snake Solidus's body and claimed it was Big Boss's body? I mean, she really should have showed him Big Boss's actual body instead of showing him Solidus's body and claiming that he was Big Boss. That's what troubles me the most. Before you claim that she didn't do that, I already posted the exact transcript on my talk page, so that shows she did actually do that, and the scene does show that he's missing the wrong eye. Also, I did actually watch the cutscenes.


 * One last thing, didn't Piggyback make that mistake about claiming the guy who suggested that they create a unit similar to FOX in the army was Roy Campbell? Weedle McHairybug 20:17, February 12, 2011 (UTC)


 * Honestly, it's not hard to buy consoles. Anyway, I thought I said that EVA knowingly used Soldius's body as a decoy. She even admits that to Snake after he killed Raging Raven. As for Piggyback, it probably did make a mistake about Campbell. I didn't get the guide for that game. I was surprised when I read that in this wiki. Either way, I'm convinced that EVA didn't know Ocelot was faking the possession. It's worth mentioning it in the trivia section at least. Anyway, at least you played Portable Ops and Peace Walker. I hate how Oliver Hague says that Portable Ops is not canon because it's barely mentioned in Peace Walker. I also hate how he refuses to admit that Coldman is clearly the deviously cunning strategist. As for the Acid games, I'm sure they are great in regards to the plot but changing cards doesn't sound like fun. --98.221.196.38 20:39, February 12, 2011 (UTC)


 * Yep, you're right about Campbell. Found this in Snake Soup.
 * I guess I could buy them. However, I'm strictly a Nintendo fan. I'm not a big fan of Playstation games or X-box games because some of the games aren't really tasteful. Besides, I kinda grew up on Nintendo. And at least for now, I think he's not around GameFAQs anymore. If he is, he certainly doesn't seem to have started any topics now. I think he also was the guy who claimed that the MGS4 Database was made in America and not acutally done with the input with Hideo Kojima. At least, him or another user claimed as such when I pointed out that Miller was mentioned to be third generation Japanese American in the database when he claimed it was retconned. Weedle McHairybug 20:54, February 12, 2011 (UTC)
 * Edit: Never mind, apparently Trambient was the one who stated that the Database was made up by an American producer. It was on this page, third post from the bottom. Weedle McHairybug 21:16, February 12, 2011 (UTC)
 * Well at least try to watch Rising's cutscenes. --98.221.196.38 21:02, February 12, 2011 (UTC)

''"For once, you are useful." ''
 * Gee, thanks. ;D

"As you see, it's not hard to believe that EVA never knew that Ocelot was faking it. Even Konami said it.
 * Actually, Piggyback said it, not Konami, but they did have input from them while writing the guide, so it seems reliable. Even so, the game itself didn't make it very clear due to poor dialogue choices. Maybe it's just localization issues with the game's translation, I don't know (personally I miss MGS1's Jeremy Blaustein).

"By the way, I never actually edited any plot information on the Acid pages. I just edited the voice actors section. Sometimes, it's better to play the games before editing plot information. Weedle stated that Para-Medic spoke French at one point. That's false."
 * Similar to how you claimed there was no voice acting in MGA2 in the game's article, before I corrected you. I was just pointing out that Weedle is not the only one who can make mistakes in that regard, so there's no real need to constantly make an issue of it. Besides which, nothing more is revealed on the whole "Ocelot/EVA grand scheme" through normal gameplay that can't be viewed in the cutscenes.

"Honestly, it's not hard to buy consoles."
 * Consoles can be quite expensive. Not everyone can afford one, let alone multiple consoles.

"I hate how Oliver Hague says that Portable Ops is not canon because it's barely mentioned in Peace Walker. I also hate how he refuses to admit that Coldman is clearly the deviously cunning strategist."
 * The game is canon of course, but barely aknowledging it in Peace Walker's plot is, undeniably, a little jarring, especially when Snake acts like he's never encountered Metal Gear before. The story makes nothing of Coldman's supposed connection to the deliberate nuking of Tselinoyarsk, which is frankly bizarre and a lost opportunity to explain some plot holes, but again, I put it down to incompetent writing and poor dialogue.


 * Anyway, apparently Kojima has trouble remembering his own canon, according to his own words, so all fans are bound to get confused at some point.


 * --Bluerock 22:02, February 12, 2011 (UTC)


 * About that last point, didn't Metal Gear Solid 4 have a similar jarring issue about barely acknowledging MGS2? I mean, unless I'm mistaken, Solid Snake did react upon learning that Liquid was starting a mother company called Outer Heaven as though he didn't even know that Liquid was possessing Ocelot, despite witnessing Liquid Ocelot not once, but twice in MGS2, and even not being shocked during the aftermath (Solid Snake did remark rather calmly about how Liquid was most likely going to go to a dead end due to the Patriots most likely feeding Ocelot false information).


 * I also get irritated whenever people act as though that somehow proves that PO isn't canon, or at least it is on the verge of being erased from canon, since that is not even enough to do so. For one thing, they'd first have to keep it absent from that MGSagas timeline, then basically not refer to the events of Portable Ops, neither through the visuals in cutscenes nor from the actual dialogue, and in fact, change all references of Major Zero being the Patriots founder to the CIA director in Metal Gear Solid 3. That would have been a very good way to actually remove it from canon, and is exactly what I would have done. Besides which, its also irritating because remarking that isn't canon and yet claiming that MGS4 is still canon, despite quite a few contradictions in PW (the opening making it seem as though Big Boss left and never returned to the United States, which makes even his forming FOXHOUND, never mind The Patriots, impossible, not to mention Big Boss's reaction to Paz's story prior to the ZEKE battle seemed like that of unfamiliarity, even though he should know what is going on since he was one of those two men). Weedle McHairybug 12:20, February 14, 2011 (UTC)


 * Exactly my point. All those things were important events and yet they are barely addressed in later installments, despite being fundamental to the very stories they're trying to tell.


 * I think it can all be easily summed up by Konami not wanting to distract new players with old storylines, however much it tramples over the old continuity. Big Boss appearing to be clueless throughout the entirity of Peace Walker is a result of this.


 * Also, where did you get the idea that Snake didn't know Ocelot was possessed? I didn't get that impression at all.


 * Anyway, its all just poor storytelling and we've just gotta deal with it.


 * --Bluerock 13:35, February 14, 2011 (UTC)


 * Well, it's likely that The Patriots changed their names to Cipher after Big Boss left. I also guess that he lied to Huey when he told him that clones are science fiction. EVA said that Big Boss left when he found out about the clones. As for Solid Snake, Weedle is talking about him saying "I watched him die!" when Campbell was talking about Liquid. --98.221.196.38 14:11, February 14, 2011 (UTC)
 * To answer Bluerock's question, like 98 said, I was referring to the Act 1 briefing, specifically when Snake states "I watched him die" when he learned that Liquid was manning the Outer Heaven mother company.
 * Also, to 98, I can fathom the Patriots changing their names briefly, and I can also fathom Big Boss lying to Huey about cloning being science fiction (he really didn't acknowledge that the LET children were his kids). What I can't fathom is Big Boss apparently not knowing about who they are even after listening to that history lecture from Paz. It would have been forgivable if it weren't for the fact that, in the same lecture explaining about Cipher's founders and split, Paz explicitly referred to the two founder's cipher and mother-like figure as The Boss. Even with the name change, the fact that two men founded an organization in The Boss's memory to make her vision a reality, and split apart should have clued Snake in as to who or what Cipher was (He was, after all, one of those two men, and the other was Zero). Weedle McHairybug 16:00, February 14, 2011 (UTC)


 * Yes, more strange dialogue to speculate about. Perhaps Solid Snake, after 5 years, suddenly decided to question the absurdity of being possessed by an arm? Perhaps Big Boss's coma (if that even happened?) caused him memory loss? Lol.


 * Anyway, I'm convinced that these sorts of things are either to recap the story or avoid information overload for new players, unfortunately at the expense of character and story. I guess one just has to ignore these odd moments for what they are, distracting and annoying though they may be. Sadly, I can see Rising and all further sequels/prequels continuing this trend. Oh, well.


 * --Bluerock 16:13, February 14, 2011 (UTC)


 * One more point to consider. I understand why a lot of people would try and claim that MPO is no longer canon: it's simply because it can be excised from the overall story and have completely no effect on continuity. In fact, the whole crux of Peace Walker's story, namely Big Boss overcoming The Boss's death and choosing not to live life the way she had, was essentially repeated, since he seemingly reverted to his post-MGS3 self in the game. So Big Boss basically had little to no character development since MPO.


 * On the matter of Gene's revelation in MPO, I've previously argued in the past about the full extent of Coldman's role in MGS3, as you are probably well aware. However, if there was a deliberate effort not to reference MPO in any manner, then that's probably the reason why the whole "predicted/planned nuking of Tselinoyarsk" was never mentioned. Since no official word even exists on the matter (that I know of), rather than state it as fact, it would be more accurate to say, "According to Gene, Coldman indirectly manipulated Colonel Volgin into... etc, etc."


 * This would be in keeping with other articles, such as Vamp and Scott Dolph's relationship always being stated to be a rumor. It would no longer sound like conjecture (i.e. could have happened but no actual evidence), and the whole matter would still be mentioned where relevant, and would not imply that it was false. It's a fair compromise, but I guess I should expect some further bashing that its "obviously true," or "it makes sense." Anyway, something to consider.


 * By the way, I'm not after any speculative rationalization of these kind of plot issues, that's not my point. I'm more interested in just maintaining the accuracy and reliability of the Wiki for other users.


 * --Bluerock 20:08, February 14, 2011 (UTC)
 * Err... completely no effect on canon? If I recall correctly, I think it was MPO that first implied that Major Zero was the one who formed the Patriots along with Ocelot, something that was also referenced in Metal Gear Solid 4. This was never mentioned at all in Metal Gear Solid 3, and in fact, MGS3 also implied that it was the DCI in charge of the operation who was actually the one who formed the Patriots with Ocelot (the timeline mentioned that in 1971, the American Philosophers were revived upon America receiving the other half of the legacy, and the ending phone call had Ocelot telling the Director that they will revive the American Philosophers soon). I know most people would end up confused that it was Major Zero who formed the philosophers, and I actually did encounter some people who were confused at this revelation, and also were put off by it, as well, as they were hoping for the kind of conspiracy that, despite its founders being long dead, still ruling over people. Another problem is EVA's mention of the CIA having The Boss killed because they feared her charisma. It also contradicts the ending of MGS3, where it was made quite clear that they only had The Boss killed specifically because of their blunder and not anything The Boss actually did (since her defection was actually faked).
 * There's also another factor to remember. Although the Virtuous Mission and Operation Snake Eater were officially labelled as two different missions. EVA mentioned in her tape that the Virtuous Mission and Operation Snake Eater were pretty much the exact same mission at least in regards to missions that The Boss was involved in, just revised a bit after Volgin launched the nuke. Plus, Coldman implies that the reason he was exiled/kicked upstairs to the Station Chief of Central America was because he was not only unwilling to keep quiet about the planning of at the very least Operation Snake Eater, but also the fact that he was "in the know." If he never was actually involved in the planning of the Virtuous Mission, and thus didn't even know that The Boss wasn't a traitor, then exiling him to keep him silent would not have made sense, since even IF he did leak that he planned Operation Snake Eater, it would not have hurt the CIA or the US Government in any way as all he would be doing is repeating the publically official story of why Operation Snake Eater took place (The Boss betrayed the United States as well as launched a nuke, so they have to kill her to stop a Nuclear War), and going by what EVA said in her tape, this definitely would have been released into the public. Now, if he were to leak that she wasn't a traitor, faked defection, and they killed her off because of a compromise between retrieving the legacy and proving America's innocence (although the extent of which whether this would harm them is debatable, as Big Boss did imply that that was part of the CIA's coverup), or worse, that they actually intended to kill her off all along, and manipulated Volgin into launching the nuke, then that would be enough of a reason to actually exile Coldman to keep him silent. That's why having him not be involved with the Virtuous Mission at all, being given only the official (IE, fake/half-truth) facts of that event, and strategising Operation Snake Eater based on these things would not have made sense, as there still would have been holes in it. Weedle McHairybug 20:37, February 14, 2011 (UTC)


 * I never said Coldman didn't know about the Boss's defection. I said it was suspicious of Gene to suggest he actually manipulated Volgin into firing a nuke. Especially since the entire operation was "revised" because of that very event (i.e. it was unforeseen). That's all. As I said, I'm not after any speculative rationalization of why he did/didn't do it.
 * Regarding MPO, what I meant was Peace Walker effectively makes it irrelevant. We are told everything we need, regarding the Patriots' formation in MGS4, and MPO merely served as a lead-in to that game, and was even hyped as such.
 * --Bluerock 21:01, February 14, 2011 (UTC)


 * The fact that Portable Ops served as a lead-in to MGS4, and also was stated to also be absolutely necessary to understand MGS4 (apparently this was so needed, that Kojima was unwilling to start production on MGS4 until after MPO was finalized) also serves as another reason it cannot be removed from canon, as in order to do that, MGS4 also has to be removed as well, and going by the fact that, chronologically, MGS4 actually gives a conclusion to the MGS saga (unless Rising decides to change things as well), then trying to do that would not work, and in fact backfire horribly as that would make the MGS saga inconclusive (as the last chronological game would be Rising, or if not that, then definitely MGS2, and the latter game definitely does not have a proper conclusion). Due to that, it is a main chapter in the saga, even if barely referenced, despite the KP podcast stating otherwise. Now, if Portable Ops was entirely standalone and thus is never really required, not even officially stated to be so, to understand MGS4, then yes, removing it from canon is easy. However, because of that, it is impossible to remove MPO from canon and keep MGS4 canon, despite claims to the contrary.
 * Besides, having MPO at the very least explains how Campbell would have been the only one currently in FOXHOUND to remember the FOXHOUND during the Big Boss days, since using the MG2:SS's take on it (FOXHOUND being formed in the 1990s) would not have made sense due to the fact that literally everyone who was a FOXHOUND officer would remember that Big Boss led FOXHOUND, since he was their first commander, and it would be impossible for them to forget in a short period of time. It never made sense to me anyways in regards to most of FOXHOUND forgetting what it was like before 1995, since that was only four to nine years, three to nine years prior to MG2 going by the intended timeline at the time it was released, when Big Boss was in command. Weedle McHairybug 21:26, February 14, 2011 (UTC)


 * It was MGS3 that retconned FOXHOUND's formation to 1971, not MPO. And Big Boss returned to the unit in the 90s to command it, as told in MGS4. Its not unlikely that the entire roster could have changed under Campbell in the four years after he took charge.
 * Anyway, this is getting a bit off topic. I was just suggesting how other fans might be convinced that the game is non-canon. That's not my view.

"Kojima was unwilling to start production on MGS4 until after MPO was finalized"
 * What's the source for that, out of interest?
 * --Bluerock 22:19, February 14, 2011 (UTC)
 * :::This is the source:
 * :::http://ps3.ign.com/articles/735/735039p1.html
 * :::In fact, the same source was also used in the Metal Gear Solid 4: Guns of the Patriots wiki article.
 * :::Weedle McHairybug 23:54, February 14, 2011 (UTC)

Reference?
{C}As Fatman would say, that's YOUR problem, friend. Not mine. Bye! :P 98.221.196.38 21:11, February 24, 2011 (UTC)

Play the game again YOURSELF, asshole. All you have to do is walk in front of a dead scientist impaled on a pendulum. Don't tell me what to do and don't call me "anon". --98.221.196.38 21:37, February 24, 2011 (UTC)

How about you post the necessary dialogue yourself when you are not lazy?
It's your problem. Not mine. So fuck off. --98.221.196.38 22:02, February 24, 2011 (UTC)

Look, 98, standard wiki policy, or heck, standard reporting policy requires that those who make statements have to source information. I may not be too happy with it, either, especially when people on the various forums state "pics or it didn't happen" and imply that I must be lying even when I am stating the actual truth, and thus have to go through a grueling, sometimes humiliating process of trying to find the source that I stated it from just to prove such a thing happened and thus that I'm not lying, such as one of the main motivations of getting those pics for that video I made on youtube to give the reason for bringing a character back onto a show, but guess what, regardless of how much I loathe it, I still do it anyways, because it is standard policy. I am also under the belief that the rules/laws apply to everyone, yes, even to me, and to you.

Another thing, can you please tone down on your temper or insults. I know you don't agree with Bluerock, but that doesn't mean you should resort to insulting people. I mean, I've disagreed with people, yet you don't see me insulting those same people. Besides, watching people fight makes me feel uncomfortable, anyways, especially when it brings back bad memories on BMGf. Weedle McHairybug 22:12, February 24, 2011 (UTC)

Get used to it. Unlike you, Gorman is an arrogant obtuse bastard. Unfortunately, he won't disappear anytime soon like Fantomas did. --98.221.196.38 17:35, February 27, 2011 (UTC)

I have a much better idea
Instead of me backing up my edits, how about you go slit your throat? Be sure to slice the carotid artery. That way you can die for good and can writhe in a sea of beautiful blood. The world would be a better place with you in the ground, you snide prick. Bye! :P--98.221.196.38 19:57, February 25, 2011 (UTC)


 * Wow, I didn't think you could stoop any lower, Anon. Pathetic, indeed. --Bluerock 20:05, February 25, 2011 (UTC)

How did the M60 Patton truck function?
Did the driver have some button that fired the machine guns on the left and right? --JohnDoe1986 15:08, February 26, 2011 (UTC)


 * If I had to guess, there were probably multiple people who operated the tank, some operating the machine guns, one operating the tank's cannon, and one who served as the actual driver. Weedle McHairybug 15:11, February 26, 2011 (UTC)

Hey, stupid
I changed my mind. I'm leaving the information on the page. Each time you remove it, I'll put it back on. Fantomas is no longer around so I can do whatever I want when I want. Get a brain, my obtuse smug friend. --98.221.196.38 17:34, February 27, 2011 (UTC)

Hey jackass.
{C}I got the conversation for you, you lazy snide bastard. 98.221.196.38 16:40, February 28, 2011 (UTC)

Hey, jackass
Could you please STOP saying that I'm biased towards the MGS handbook? I never said I disliked the book. However, it's not entirely accurate. It said that Big Boss fought in WW2 yet Peace Walker confirmed that he was seven years old when the war began. God, you're a fucking jackass. At least Weedle is not as nasty as you are. I feel sorry for your mother. Since you are complaing so much, I'll add the handbook information to the biography of nearly ALL the characters except Big Boss since he obviously didn't fight in World War 2.

--98.221.196.38 13:12, March 9, 2011 (UTC)

Sorry about that Bluerock
I'm sorry about getting into a brief editing war with you Bluerock. I didn't realize that webs.com was fansite (I should have been paying more attention). Once again, sorry about the misunderstanding. Omega Fighter 18:51, March 9, 2011 (UTC)

Just so you know
I'm not 75.71.223.122. I have no idea why he's removing the information about Solid Snake's personality. --98.221.196.38 13:01, March 10, 2011 (UTC)

Reasoning?
Saying "blah, blah" simply revealed what a big smarmy jackass you really are. Yawn, sad but true! --98.221.196.38 14:10, March 11, 2011 (UTC)


 * Perhaps one should stick to a discussion, rather than troll about killing oneself? I can't even imagine what on Earth you were expecting in response. And I attempted reasoning long before you descended into this pointless nonsense. Instead, you spouted garbage about getting "new lines": there are only so many variations that can be made of the exact same reasoning. You still haven't even attempted to provide evidence of any of those assumptions you insist on maintaining in the pages and just ignore the issue entirely. Instead you prefer childish bickering and expect proof of non-existence, which is completely paradoxical. The only thing that is "sad" here is that you are willing to revert a page indefinitely over some personal vendetta.
 * So will your next response be an attempt at rational discussion? Or just more worthless tripe?
 * --Bluerock 15:44, March 11, 2011 (UTC)
 * It will be rational. We see the Metal Gear D by moving around when the R1 option is shown. It's not a hidden thing because the R1 option is shown unlike Ocelot's appearance at the CIA director's office. That's the point I'm trying to make.--98.221.196.38 19:12, March 11, 2011 (UTC)


 * The toy models were not hidden either and were in plain view. The D-esque Metal Gear is initially hidden from view, regardless of the fact that the R1 option is shown. That does not constitute any proof beyond that of an easter egg (similar to Ocelot's appearance, in that respect). You might say the same applied to The Sorrow's skeleton, but there was actual evidence for its existence in that instance. Should it ever be verified that D's design originated with Granin then there would be good cause to mention it, but its placement in "Behind the scenes" is more than enough without making an assumption because "it fits." --Bluerock 19:40, March 11, 2011 (UTC)


 * One more thing. Brain death may be the legal indicator of death in my country but when it comes to a dying celebrity (Natasha Richardson) or a police officer (one of two killed in Tampa) shot in the head, the media doesn't call them "dead". They just call them "brain dead". When the life support is unplugged, that's when the media says that the person is really "dead". So please excuse my ignorance in regards to "brain death" and "clinical death". Go figure that Solidus' body was kept alive for five years despite his spine being cut in half. --98.221.196.38 21:41, March 11, 2011 (UTC)

Well, science should be taken over media interpretation any day, that goes without saying. The death status should be that of the person, and a person ceases to exist and dies at brain death. Anyway, both clinical and brain death dates are given so I wasn't sure why you was raising the issue again.

Anyway, regarding D, is it not a big assumption to take that image at face value considering the nature of its vague appearance, with no confirmation in other sources to back it up? The same goes for Galvez's affiliation with Cipher, with only a single line of dialogue being referenced, that some believe "imply" is the case. The reader, or viewer, should be allowed to take what they want from a story in matters that are unclear, without a single opinion being pushed forth simply because it "makes sense."

I'm all for popular thinking being discussed in the relevant "Behind the scenes" section, such as Strangelove (possibly Huey's future wife) and Johnson (possibly Ocelot's contact), as a relevant matter of interest, but to claim it as fact on the poor evidence to date is quite misleading. You might consider it a hard line to take on these issues, but when article biographies and histories are written from an in-universe perspective, it is really the only logical approach to take.

--Bluerock 23:42, March 11, 2011 (UTC)

Metal Gear Acid
So none of the characters spoke any lines at any point in the first Acid game? Not even during boss fights? The game's storyline seems to be great but changing cards doesn't sound like fun. --98.221.196.38 11:34, March 15, 2011 (UTC)


 * None in the first game, aside from the aforementioned grunts of enemy soldiers, who are not credited. The cards are fine if you enjoy strategy-type games. --Bluerock 12:54, March 15, 2011 (UTC)

Doesn't make sense.
I can buy that Naomi would modify the FOXDIE virus for Snake to be infected, but the problem is that it conflicts with the Patriots trying to off Snake specifically because they "didn't choose for him to be the hero of Shadow Moses." The Patriots, going by the whole thing of Nastasha's novel, apparently were the reason Snake got involved, apparently even going as far as to have Meryl Silverburgh captured on the exact same day that FOXHOUND would rebel to blackmail Campbell to bring Snake into the whole mess and also keep him in the dark about the truth of the mission. FOXDIE was also supposed to be used to kill off The Sons of Big Boss so that the Pentagon, and thus the Patriots could retrieve REX and the Genome Soldiers undamaged, as well as keep those who were in the know of the project and expendible (such as President Baker) in order to silence them. Going by the ending of the novel, they also seemed to have intended to have killed off at least Nastasha Romanenko (since Richard Ames was implied to have orders to kill Romanenko after the mission, but his reblossoming feelings for Romanenko ended up having him instead sparing her and supplying her with evidence against the Patriots.), so I have doubts that the Patriots would have simply let Snake live after the mission, since it would have become slightly apparent that he would have found some discrepencies for what's happening and thus have the risk of him either turning against him or otherwise exposing it to others. I know I would have if I were the Patriots. That's why I'm pretty sure that Snake being one of FOXDIE's targets to begin with, and the wildcard value was the edit. If Snake being one of the targets itself was the edit, why go the full length of adding in the wildcard value for revenge? I mean, having him shook up by people dying around him from apparent heart attacks caused by FOXDIE would have been more than enough to freak him out before he dies. Plus, why would the Patriots, or really anyone besides Snake's friends be concerned if Naomi edited FOXDIE to target Snake? All it would have succeeded in doing was ensuring that one less person could risk finding out too much about Shadow Moses and thus expose it. The Wildcard value, however, would have the risk of it allowing Snake to live long enough to expose the events of Shadow Moses to the public, and the government's involvement. I doubt that the Patriots would have been willing to allow that risk, anyways. Anyways, that's whats bothering me about it. The Patriots being concerned and arresting Naomi Hunter just because she edited it to include Snake in the FOXDIE targeting list would not have made too much sense. Weedle McHairybug 18:31, March 27, 2011 (UTC)


 * I think you're overanalyzing and speculating a little too much. Condemning Snake to agonize over his impending death, at an unknown time, would be a lot more satisfying as revenge for Naomi, rather than simply killing him off quickly, as she could well have done. That was the meaning that the quote from Nastasha's book was trying to get across. --Bluerock 20:43, March 27, 2011 (UTC)


 * The problem is that having him extremely freaked out about the the deaths from FOXDIE (Heck, he was freaked out enough to actually ask if Otacon was all right during their first encounter because he witnessed Kenneth Baker and the DARPA Chief/Decoy Octopus's deaths via apparent heart attacks.) would also have been just as suitable in terms of mental anguish as condemning him to a fearful limbo, even without the wildcard value.


 * Besides which, it also doesn't make sense for her "secret edit" to be contained within the actual FOXDIE data. She could have easily just put it in an entirely separate file that would most likely require hacking if she truly wanted to make Snake's addition into FOXDIE's data very much secret.


 * There's also the fact that Ocelot mentioned that the FOXDIE in Snake would take effect soon in his call to Solidus in both endings, indicating that Ocelot and Solidus, at the very least, not only knew about Snake being infected with FOXDIE, but also planned it.


 * And, as stated before, it really doesn't make any sense that the Patriots would simply allow Snake to live after the operation. I mean, they certainly didn't intend for Nastasha Romanenko to live, and going by Solid Snake and Mei Ling's conversation as well as the ending, where they intended to make a copy of all the Codec conversations made during the Shadow Moses Incident, it was also very likely they would have intended to off the other people involved in the mission as well just to ensure that they didn't end up living long enough for them to squeal about various things about the Shadow Moses Incident.


 * Besides which, as stated before, Otacon mentioned that the Patriots didn't want Snake to be the hero, which doesn't make any sense if they were the ones who got Solid Snake into the mission in the first place. The only thing that would make any sense in regards to meshing these two together is if they didn't intend for Snake to live after the operation.


 * I'm not sure if even the fact that Nastasha Romanenko's book being published had much to do with their decision. After all, even with the unanticipated factor that Richard Ames would actually supply that information to allow it to be published, they still seemed to do enough to discredit it by only allowing an abridged version to be made, and thus apparently not make it too popular, or at least have trouble selling it, going by McGolden's article.


 * Thus, the FOXDIE thing seemed to make sense in my mind at least. Now, if they state that Naomi Hunter's illegal edit was simply adding in Snake to FOXDIE's target list, fine, I probably won't edit it to suggest otherwise, but it still doesn't make too much sense.


 * Weedle McHairybug 09:09, April 7, 2011 (UTC)


 * I split up your comments into paragraphs to make them easier to address. I suggest you do this whenever discussing multiple ideas, especially for articles.


 * 1. In MGS1, Naomi's objective was to ultimately kill him, not solely to freak him out. The anxiety of not knowing when his end would come is purely an additional act of cruelty to make her revenge more satisfying. She wanted him to suffer for the long term.


 * 2. There are other methods of concealing the modifications, especially since genetic data itself is extremely complex. She may not even have had to deliberately hide it if it was difficult to spot in the first place.


 * 3. Ocelot's comment is confusing, I agree with that, especially considering recent story developments. FOXDIE's "activation" presumably meant that Snake (the vector) should have become affected "soon" after the events of MGS1. Perhaps the "schedule" was specifically referring to Naomi's modifications (the "wildcard value" story wasn't introduced until MGS2)? Whether it was actually part of a larger scheme is never explained.


 * 4. The U.S. Government used Snake for the operation because they felt he was the "only one" who could defeat his twin brother, Liquid, who posed a very large threat. They likely did not care whether he ended up dead or not, as long as the mission was accomplished (securing REX and the stealth warhead data).


 * 5. People don't have to be killed to keep a story quiet. That in itself can usually draw even more attention. Mei Ling backed up the mission data as leverage against the government; not necessarily because they feared being killed off for simply being involved. Snake only became a (bigger) hero after the the events were leaked to the public, which is what the Patriots tried to keep a lid on and failed. I would imagine his later "terrorist" activities would have given them greater cause for concern.


 * MGS doesn't always make sense, but speculation should be avoided. --Bluerock 13:15, April 7, 2011 (UTC)


 * Honestly, Weedle. Sometimes, you are hopeless. Do you even pay attention when you read? Plus, all you've done is post a wall of text. Here's the sentence again.

"The FOXDIE program data covers Naomi’s careful analysis of the unauthorized reconfiguration she had made to the virus."


 * Hence, she was the one who made Snake a target. The data covers her analysis of UNAUTHORIZED RECONFIGURATION. The DIA did not authorize her to kill Snake. As for the Patriots, Kojima probably didn't even create them until Sons of Liberty. His retcons often don't make sense. I suggest you just deal with it. --98.221.196.38 20:57, March 27, 2011 (UTC)
 * It was a mistake, all right? Actually, I do remember Ocelot mentioning something in his call to Sears/Solidus about FOXDIE activating soon, although I'm not certain if that was supposed to imply that Snake was supposed to take out many more enemies than just the Sons of Big Boss and Kenneth Baker or if it was also intended to kill Snake himself, but it certainly suggests something at least. Weedle McHairybug 21:28, March 27, 2011 (UTC)
 * I assume they were referring to Naomi adding Snake as a target. --98.221.196.38 12:37, March 28, 2011 (UTC)

Fine!
Since you are an expert in Metal Gear, please answer one question. How exactly were the Genome Soldiers brainwashed? They still tried to kill Snake numerous times after Psycho Mantis was killed. 98.221.196.38 12:35, March 28, 2011 (UTC)


 * Well, I'm by no means an expert, but I can tell you that the MGS4 Database states that not all were brainwashed. It is not unlikely that there were many loyal to Liquid's ideals, considering that some were former Outer Heaven mercs, and there was also the need to correct their genetic mutations. I had previously assumed the "brainwashing" was simply a morale boost, given Liquid's comments in the control room, and that all the Genome Soldiers had participated in the revolt willingly, but apparently this wasn't the case. --Bluerock 10:15, March 29, 2011 (UTC)

Naomi!
Whatever, I'm not in the mood to get involved in ANOTHER "removing assumptions" edit war with you so do what you want. At least you agreed with me on Big Boss. Snake Eater and Peace Walker clearly removed his strategy guide biography. Snake was 6 when the US got involved in WW2 so he would have had to be the drummer boy to be in that war. XD

Also, Big Boss was a Green Beret in 1961, not a mercenary for the French. He was not involved in the Congo wars And he was actually against the Les Enfant Terribles project. Hell, that's why he left The Patriots.

I really wonder how involved Hideo Kojima was with the character biographies of the strategy guide.98.221.196.38 13:19, April 5, 2011 (UTC)


 * "Whatever, I'm not in the mood to get involved in ANOTHER "removing assumptions" edit war with you so do what you want."
 * In this case, I wouldn't be removing an assumption, I'd be replacing deleted content that was completely valid for that section. There should have been no edit war over it.




 * Naomi's marital status falls under the category of "unconfirmed," since no other reference to it is ever made. Not mentioning something in the games does not simply make it non-existant. One could speculate forever about its likelihood. The "unconfirmed" section is only for info that is feasible, but not officially confirmed.


 * "At least you agreed with me on Big Boss. Snake Eater and Peace Walker clearly removed his strategy guide biography." 
 * I always agreed that his WWII backstory was no longer accurate, which is exactly why it was omitted from that specific section. Peace Walker retconned him to be too young, and it was already mentioned elsewhere in the article. However, that alone would not necessarily render the entire account in the strategy guide impossible, which is what was being claimed. Details become outdated in any source, regardless of whether they're direct from Konami or not.


 * The Japanese heritage story is also no longer canon, since MGS4 indicated that Snake's Japanese "blood" originated with an egg donor, rather than Big Boss. Since it was also interlinked with the WWII story, it made sense to remove this. Big Boss was presumably a merc from 1964 to '70, and not 61, so the Congo Crisis info could also be removed. However, the case for removing these aspects from "unconfirmed" status was never even made, and instead was a result of confusion regarding that specific section's purpose. Anyway, it turns out that it is no longer required for the moment.
 * "I really wonder how involved Hideo Kojima was with the character biographies of the strategy guide."
 * Hideo Kojima is not the sole writer of the series' canon, but that's beside the point. The strategy guide consulted with Konami's staff and Kojima himself even assisted with the officially licensed MGS1 novel, but they have been deemed "unconfirmed" until backed up in a direct Konami source. If you recall, you also pushed for such a distinction to be made, in regards to canon, one example being Decoy Octopus as a Mexican-born, former CIA operative, and another being the Twin Snakes' birth in New Mexico. There are such cases when Konami sources do back up some info, such as the MGS4 Database on Nastasha's and Mei Ling's early careers.


 * I hope that this made sense, and you understand why that section exists in the first place. If you think it's time to remove something, then by all means do it, but you need stronger reasoning than "news to me" to back up an edit.


 * I'll even make an agreement with you, if you're up for it. If you dispute my edits, we discuss it in the article's talk page rather than revert, and if I dispute your edits, I'll do the same. I'm certain that Weedle would do so as well. But only if it's an adult discussion, without any obscene and immature behavior, as you cannot very well expect meaningful responses in return. It is possible to disagree about something without having a repulsive attitude about it. And I've always preferred that editing be a collaboration.


 * --Bluerock 19:55, April 5, 2011 (UTC)

Naomi Hunter?
What the fuck have you been smoking, Stillman? She was in prison at the time. How the fuck can she be under surveillance? Ocelot was clearly talking about Meryl. Honestly, you are an annoying retarded anal bastard that won't go away. Everything is "assumptions" to you. Well, suggesting that Hunter is the person Ocelot was talking about is a major stupid assumption so I have taken the liberty of removing that. Practice what you preach. The "woman" quote no longer links to Meryl either so you should be happy. HA HA HA HA, Hunter being under surveillance while incarcerated, eh? Not once is that even implied. Your stupidity always increases every time I visit this wiki. Soon your IQ will match Otness's. It's sad that this wiki is now filled with two morons that I hate with a passion. 98.221.196.38 12:27, April 14, 2011 (UTC)


 * Um, so people can't be placed under watch while in prison? I'm aware that it is also an assumption, but I didn't claim unverified info to be fact, unlike your own poor editing and sourcing.


 * Stillman? Is that supposed to be some joke, Anon? Ho ho ho!
 * My name is not Anon. It's Gubayama. I live in Shibomnigee.--98.221.196.38 13:41, April 15, 2011 (UTC)
 * Seriously, pottymouth, it's time to grow up and act like an adult. I'm sorry if you can't handle scrutiny of your long held opinions, but good grief, you'll have to get over it sometime. --Bluerock 13:37, April 14, 2011 (UTC)
 * If I recall correctly, wasn't there a surveillance camera in Naked Snake's hospital room/cell during the flashback cutscene where Major Zero tells Snake about Operation Snake Eater? Weedle McHairybug 12:16, April 15, 2011 (UTC)
 * Well, duh. But that doesn't change the fact that Ocelot only mentions a "woman" in the Meryl Ending. Plus why must it be Naomi? By your logic, it could be Nastasha or Mei Ling.--98.221.196.38 13:41, April 15, 2011 (UTC)


 * Duh, indeed. Not being able to monitor someone in prison? So what have you been smoking, Anon? And did you forget that Naomi deliberately sabotaged a government operation? That was a pretty big plot point. Your child-like temper tantrums and vocabulary will never deter sensible editing, so why bother? --Bluerock 15:24, April 16, 2011 (UTC)


 * You're not an administrator. You don't have the authority to tell me what should be on the page. No matter how many times you put ridiculous and false information, it will be reverted. You love edit wars and you love insisting that you are right and I am wrong so let's have another edit war. And by the way, you are still retarded. Naomi being the woman under surveillance? HA HA, and the moon is made of cheese. Did you know that? I'd actually consider your claim to be credible if Ocelot said "the woman" in the Otacon ending. Guess what? He doesn't say that in that ending. Your ignorance will never deter sensible edting, so why bother?--98.221.196.38 18:47, April 16, 2011 (UTC)

>Ho, ho ho.

Yeah, that's what the mall Santas say to kids in December.

>Seriously, pottymouth.

LOL, you clearly haven't seen South Park: Bigger, Longer and Uncut. That movie has a lot more foul language than I do.

>It's time to grow up and act like an adult.

I'm 23 years old. I've already grown up and I am an adult. You on the other hand won't reveal your age. November 16, 19XX? You act like a woman.

>Good grief.

That's what Charlie Brown always says.

>Your child-like temper tantrums and vocabulary.

That's ironic considering your past behavior. Solidus died in 2009 despite his head and body moving in 2014. Blah blah blah. The B&B membes lived happily ever after despite Snake saying wolfs were guarding Crying Wolf's grave. Blah blah blah. Solidus was the guy talking to Ocelot in 2007 despite Otacon saying that Solidus was in hiding at the time. Blah blah blah. Removing assumptions. Blah blah blah. Actually removing assumptions. Blah blah blah. And Nastasha was an NSA agent even though the two sources also say that Meryl was a FOXHOUND agent. Blah blah blah.

Naturally, your reply will be smarmy and arrogant.

--98.221.196.38 19:00, April 16, 2011 (UTC)


 * Yawn. Same old whiny attitude. "You can't tell me what to do"? As I said, like a small child. --Bluerock 20:10, April 16, 2011 (UTC)

Ha!
You removed your personal information from your user page. Good! Posting personal information on the internet is dangerous. You're learning. It's pretty cool that you're British though. Kate Middleton is BEAUTIFUL. Your Prince William is a lucky guy.98.221.196.38 16:29, April 19, 2011 (UTC)

Ha?
Yes, some people do appear to have an unhealthy fascination with other users' personal details. There isn't that much of a vibrant community on this website, so it didn't seem particularly relevant anymore. Not that it will stop any childish personal attacks should disagreements occur, I'm certain. --Bluerock 17:45, April 19, 2011 (UTC)

Fine then!
Please allow me to ask you a question that is NOT personal. Why did Dr. Madnar need to be "underground" to make robots? I was surprised when Otacon mentioned that and when the database said Madnar went into hiding. Zero going into hiding makes sense but not Madnar. --98.221.196.38 19:21, April 30, 2011 (UTC)


 * Madnar was already an eccentric engineer as of MG2. Otacon says "underground" in the sense that he is not "mainstream." --Bluerock 19:47, April 30, 2011 (UTC)

Are you sure about that?
According to EVA's recruitment mission, she became a cargo plane pilot. However, MGS4 confirmed that EVA and Big Boss never met in Colombia, hence the mission is not canon. Does that mean EVA being a cargo plane pilot is still canon? As for Para-Medic and Sigint, recruiting them is clearly not canon. We see them greet Big Boss at the end of the game. We don't see them leaving the plane together. Also, recruiting them is basically a hidden easter egg. The chances of a player knowing how to recruit them without an internet faq is close to nil. It's not even mentioned in the official Portable Ops guide. However, since you are clearly the biggest Metal Gear expert and prophet in the world (peace be upon you) and your words come from God himself, please explain how ARPA's technology and EVA being a cargo plane pilot can be considered canon.98.221.196.38 21:05, May 3, 2011 (UTC)


 * I clearly said that Sigint's recruitment is generally considered noncanon. However, ARPA's activities are in no way dependent on Big Boss and Sigint having a discussion about it, and his recruitment is entirely disconnected from events at ARPA. EVA's account, however, directly relates to her personal backstory, which was altered in MGS4. Trust me, I do not add info without valid reasoning, whatever you may think. --Bluerock 21:32, May 3, 2011 (UTC)

Ames issue.
I didn't see the reason why the part about the other reason for the Patriots wanting him dead had to be removed. After all, going by what Ames stated when supplying Nastasha Romanenko with both the FOXDIE data and the Shadow Moses data, the Patriots didn't want him to give her the data (After all, he said that the FOXDIE evidence as well as the data on the entirety of the Shadow Moses Incident would have been more than enough to be undeniable evidence for the public to not only get himself, but presumably his bosses into very deep trouble, when simply leaking the arguement between him and Houseman would have just been dismissed by the public. Plus, he stated that she could use the data as leverage against the Patriots to protect herself) Plus, it was also implied that his orders when the Shadow Moses Incident was resolved was to actually kill Nastasha to silence her, not fork over the evidence. For the above reasons alone, I find it very hard to believe that they had him killed simply so they could mimic FOXDIE, since they could have just as easily planted some random person with absolutely no affiliation with the Patriots other than his having censoring nanomachines to seal the deal. Anyways, that's my take on it. Do what you wish, but at least state the reason if you remove it again. Weedle McHairybug 19:12, May 7, 2011 (UTC)


 * I see your point, but it is still a presumption, considering the sentence in the article said "probably." I thought the reason for removing it would have been apparent. Anyway, I noted the possibility in "Behind the scenes," as we do with other topics, so hope that is fine with you. --Bluerock 21:41, May 7, 2011 (UTC)

Nuclear weapons being authorized by Battlefield Commanders in regional conflicts.
Hi. I was wondering if what Nastasha mentioned about battlefield commanders authorizing the use of nuclear weapons in various regional conflicts is actually true in real life. Weedle McHairybug 23:45, May 21, 2011 (UTC)


 * I have no idea to be honest. Tactical nukes are designed for use on the battlefield, but who gives the order to do so, and in which countries, I couldn't say. Whether their use would even be comprehended today is another question entirely. Most likely it is an exaggeration on the story's part to further establish the game's setting. --Bluerock 01:27, May 22, 2011 (UTC)

AV-8B
Are you the one who created the AV-8B in 3d?


 * I didn't create it. It's a CG model from MGS2, as featured on various promotional wallpapers for the game. --Bluerock 17:48, May 24, 2011 (UTC)

Howdy.
Hello there! How has everything been since I've been gone? Sorry about leaving, but the intense amount of negative energy I felt hanging around here became a little too much to handle and I needed time out. Cheers to you and some the others for keeping up the hard work. --Fantomas 23:47, June 2, 2011 (UTC)


 * Hey Fantomas, nice to hear from you. I don't blame you for taking a break; there are just some bad apples who really sap the fun out of editing this site, but we can't let them win. Anyway, I've been steadily working on the MGA card pages at the moment, as they've been left in a rather disorganized state for some time. I've also been trying to locate some good quality images for pages that lack them in order to improve their presentation. We've also had a few new users who have joined the site who have helped us out too. --Bluerock 07:55, June 3, 2011 (UTC)
 * Yeah, and to elaborate further, at least one of those "bad apples" also made an insult that was extremely similar to a death threat, as evidenced by the title of the link. It's even worse that the same guy even went as far as to actually post pictures of decapitated heads to get his point across. Weedle McHairybug 09:23, June 3, 2011 (UTC)
 * People take this stuff way too seriously. --Fantomas 10:06, June 3, 2011 (UTC)

Coldman in Famitsu
All I know about it is from some text that some users put in while discussing some things Famitsu published about Metal Gear Solid: Peace Walker. Here's what was stated:

[b]Coldman:[/b] Grahahahaha, it may have cost all of Costa Rica but now I have the battle data for my advisor to tell me what the Ultimate Deterrent is! What machine should I give my famous nuke to? [hl=black]The Boss'[/hl] [b]AI:[/b] Naked Snake. {C}[b]NS:[/b] *Blush* From now on, call me Big Boss!

They didn't really supply a picture or anything, although I have requested on GameFAQs that they either give an explaination for this or even a pic of this if they have it. Weedle McHairybug 14:27, June 3, 2011 (UTC)


 * So far, I haven't been getting much luck. No one is giving me the context as of right now in MGSForums (forcing me to double post), and on GameFAQs, one user also implies that it is either a fake or porn. In either case, here's the link of at least one of the forums that stated it (and trust me, there was at least one other forum besides the IGN one that stated the quote above at one point):


 * http://boards.ign.com/metal_gear_solid/b5200/188717036/p1/


 * Take into it what you will for now. Weedle McHairybug 21:26, June 4, 2011 (UTC)


 * Well thanks for checking it out anyway. I just didn't understand the reason for including it since it's just dialogue with no context. --Bluerock 21:34, June 4, 2011 (UTC)

Rosemary
Okay, I won't add in that Snake probably rescued her, but can we at least add in to the behind the scenes section of either Rosemary or Solid Snake's articles that Solid Snake was aware of Rosemary being freed from the Patriots captivity? Weedle McHairybug 14:29, June 5, 2011 (UTC)


 * Perhaps a small discussion on how exactly Rosemary was freed (did they just let her go?), but I don't believe Snake knew anything about this. He only seems to know that she exists and that Raiden should settle his personal issues before attempting to rescue Olga's child. --Bluerock 14:37, June 5, 2011 (UTC)

MGS4 Location images.
Hi. Sorry if I'm being a bit pushy, but I think some of the articles dealing with the locations in MGS4 really need images uploaded that haven't had any uploaded already. For example, the Urban Ruin and Downtown areas, although I've tried to add in and tidy up the articles, may need images and further improvements. Weedle McHairybug 21:13, June 16, 2011 (UTC)


 * Yes, I shall look into it when I get the chance, probably sometime over the weekend. --Bluerock 22:54, June 16, 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the edits to the Urban ruin and Downtown areas, BTW. I think the only ones we have left for the Middle Eastern areas are Advent Palace and Millenium Park. Weedle McHairybug 21:54, June 17, 2011 (UTC)
 * Okay, it seems as though we've completed the Middle East parts. All thats left are the South American and Eastern Europe locations. Weedle McHairybug 16:06, June 18, 2011 (UTC)

MGS4 Codec conversation request (if it exists, that is).
Okay, assuming that such a Codec conversation even exists, can you post any Codecs relating to this supposed Oil Pipeline that the Eastern European government and the US Government agreed to build that also resulted in a riot at the US embassy and place it onto the Metal Gear Solid 4 Codec conversations article? I'm asking because its likely we're going to need to add it in if it is in-game, plus it gives us more references than if we just use the Database or even the wiki itself. Weedle McHairybug 00:44, June 18, 2011 (UTC)


 * Thanks for adding in the PMC Presence Codec call, BTW. Weedle McHairybug 12:55, July 10, 2011 (UTC)

Krasnogorje, Svyatogornyj, Lazorevo, and Zaozyorje pictures
Hi. Is there any chance that you can upload pictures of Krasnogorje, Svyatogornyj, Lazorevo, and Zaozyorje for their respective articles? They seem to be pretty lonely without them. Weedle McHairybug 22:55, June 22, 2011 (UTC)


 * I shall keep an eye open for them. I would take screenshots direct from the PS2 myself, but I don't know how to do this without having to get a lot of fancy tech (using a camera with a TV usually produces poor images). --Bluerock 00:11, June 23, 2011 (UTC)

Omission.
I thought the omission in the Previous Operations in my edit to Solid Snake's article seemed important enough to note because some people I've encountered who played the MSX2 games, especially Metal Gear 2: Solid Snake, claimed that this was one of the most important (if not the most important) aspects to Solid Snake's personality, so it seemed rather odd that something that's allegedly that important to cementing Snake's characterization would be omitted from the Metal Gear 2: Solid Snake portion of the Previous Operations section. I mean, it didn't even have to require a whole paragraph stating it, a simple sentence of Solid Snake stating this would have sufficed in and of itself, in either case. Another reason to note why it seemed rather important to note is because some characters statements (namely what Meryl said after asking Snake a few questions, and especially what Liquid and Psycho Mantis stated) seems to completely contradict Snake's statement of loving life (for Meryl, feeling alive when cheating death on the battlefield is one thing, but feeling alive when people are dying around you, period, is something else entirely, and is something that someone who loves life is extremely unlikely to feel [Logically, the exact opposite feeling would be felt instead, they'd feel deader than dead].). Anyways, those are my reasons for feeling it was important to note, since, at least to me, it seems to arrive at a disconnect. Weedle McHairybug 15:03, June 25, 2011 (UTC)

My answer to your question.
Why would Meryl not be under surveillance? She's a survivor of the Shadow Moses incident. She knew what really happened. Plus, you can't ignore that the surveillance is not mentioned in the Otacon ending of the original game. Twin Snakes doesn't really count since nearly all of the cutscenes are not canon judging by the flashbacks in MGS4 I didn't know Naomi was your favorite character. You seem to really want her to be the one under surveillance. Since you and Weedle are the new de facto administrators, I'm not going to start another "removing assumptions" edit war with you. 65.211.97.242 15:07, June 25, 2011 (UTC)


 * The cutscenes may not have been counted as canon in Metal Gear Solid 4, but the actual dialogue was counted as canon, seeing how Metal Gear Solid 4 used The Twin Snakes script for the Shadow Moses flashbacks when they could have just as easily done a redo of the voice acting using the script used for Metal Gear Solid, or even if needs be use Metal Gear Solid's script taken directly from the archives as is. Weedle McHairybug 15:18, June 25, 2011 (UTC)

Rogue status
As much as I can try to envision the Peace Sentinels not being rogue, its kind of hard to imagine it isn't rogue after some of the things they pulled off, several of which would have probably been against CIA interests anyways (such as allying with the KGB, not to mention what Coldman did with Paz at Puerto del Alba which would have been very bad news for Coldman when, or rather if it became apparent that she was actually a CIA agent). In addition, why would the CIA agree to allow Peace Walker to launch a live nuke, especially when what they are concerned about with Peace Walker is whether the retaliation data actually worked, which could have been easily done with a dummy warhead and thus makes a live one completely unnecessary. I also sincerely doubt that the CIA would have directly interfered with their commander-in-chief's visit to Vladivostok by launching the final test with Peace Walker, especially with what was implied to be an attempt to hack into NORAD's computers. Anyways, theres no way that the CIA would have endorsed some of the atrocities the Peace Sentinels committed. Other than the fact that most of them was morally wrong, they also are strategically against the CIA's benefit, not to mention America's benefit, inherently. For starters, forcing a Costa Rican village to become a prison camp, not to mention bringing nuclear weapons into Costa Rica, thus severely breaching the Tlatecolo treaty that would jeporadize American relations, CIA relations even, with Costa Rica and other Central American countries and risk them becoming allied with the Soviet Union and even bringing about Communism at worst case scenario letting the Soviets win the Cold War is never a good strategy. It's simple political science. It also becomes jarring and horrifying when the Peace Sentinels are actually poisoning their own country by continuing to allow a formerly KGB-owned drug plant to ship narcotics into America, poisoning their children's minds, and certainly causing a lot of problems when doing this for your country. Honestly, had I been the CIA's position, I'd actually avoid doing things that would severely jeporadize America's relations to our allies especially if we're in the middle of a war. Anyways, that's just my take on it. If you want to counter these points about how they couldn't have been a rogue CIA unit, be my guest. Weedle McHairybug 21:04, August 17, 2011 (UTC)


 * Yeah, the CIA isn't exactly a stellar example when it comes to morals; they've done a lot of questionable things in regards to halting the spread of Communism during the Cold War. You're right, the CIA heads didn't know exactly what Coldman was up to at the time but he was still doing it in their interests. Besides, the Costa Rican President collaborated with the CIA around this period. Claiming that they're "rogue" in the first instance gives the wrong impression. --Bluerock 07:48, August 18, 2011 (UTC)
 * Okay, although that still doesn't explain why Coldman would deliberately choose, according to Huey, to launch a live nuke as part of the test instead of the far more necessary dummy warhead just to get a "step up" in negotiations. I mean, to me, at least, that sounds more like he's blackmailing the CIA heads into getting the job back. Maybe there is an explaination other than blackmail, but for the life of me, I can't think of one besides it. Actually, I'm also not even sure why he even needs mass production money for Peace Walker itself from the CIA, especially when its pretty apparent that he had more than enough mass production money for Pupa at least (if the Mine Base's main hangar entrance is anything to go by). Plus, I know that they weren't the best morally, but some of the things done the CIA did that were morally questionable still had some relative American interests at heart. However, actually supplying drugs, drugs captured from a formerly KGB-owned drug refining plant, no less, to their own American children has absolutely no justification, especially not a fear of Communism. Had it really been fear of Communism, they should have just shut down or outright blew up the plant and discontinue the drug trade after reporting it to the local authorities, not continue it. That's also another reason why I find it problematic, since not only is their continuing to, in Amanda's words, "turn their own children into junkies" not only morally wrong, its also inherently anti-American in terms of strategy. Weedle McHairybug 12:33, August 18, 2011 (UTC)

They've turned a blind eye to drug running anti-Communist regimes in the past so I wouldn't put it past them. The PS doing so shows that their funds were not unlimited, so Coldman would need a steady supply of CIA money to continue Peace Walker's production. Also, remember that the PS are actually mercs and not "official" operatives. If Coldman didn't launch a live nuke he wouldn't be able to prove that Peace Walker could do so knowing the full consequences of a real strike; if a dummmy was used, human operators would be more comfortable launching it themselves, knowing that there would be no harm caused, and Coldman's original point would be lost. --Bluerock 12:54, August 18, 2011 (UTC)


 * I thought Coldman's belief was that humans were too weak-willed to launch nukes themselves, hesitating to push the button and essentially backing down when a nuclear threat is present, thus necessitating an AI such as Peace Walker to not only not hesitate in "pushing the button" for retaliation, but actually doing it every single time a threat occurs. I thought Coldman's belief on retaliation is essentially "exterminate all your enemies with nukes before they exterminate you [with nukes]!", given what Huey described as well as Coldman's constant references to human retaliation being flawed because "humans makes mistakes" in regards to retaliation, so I really don't see how that would have actually impacted things. Besides which, Peace Walker was supposed to be a completely autonomous weapon, so technically humans would not have much control over it, anyways, and Coldman's original point was already lost as soon as he started placing false data into Peace Walker anyways, which, although technically a retalitory strike because it was launching due to missile data suggesting that America was being targeted by the Soviets, it was closer to a pre-emptive strike in practice, and that was before Zadornov betrayed and shot him. Sorry, but I have trouble understanding this, which is why I found the blackmail part to be more logically sound, even if it is not something that I would have liked.


 * As for the drug trade, there's a significant difference between anti-communist regimes doing a drug trade and someone or something connected to the CIA actually using a drug-refinery plant that was captured from the KGB to continue the drug route to America that was formerly started by the KGB, the latter option is exactly what the Peace Sentinels did, which carries a hefty amount of unfortunate implications to the CIA as to what Coldman's loyalties truly were to. Even for hiring mercenaries, there are limits as to what the relationship between a mercenary and a particular group entails, and if they do something very serious such as this, it really would call into question whether they were still trustworthy. Take the Dark Knight, for example, the Mafia in that movie hired the Joker to stop Batman after they were busted by Harvey Dent, but eventually, they reneigned on the hiring (or at least Maroni did) after Rachael Dawes was killed by the Joker's men, and even testified to the GCPD as to where the Joker was hiding. I also somehow doubt that the CIA would have endorsed basically murdering the captured FSLN members shortly after squealing about their compas' locations under torture. Torturing them, possibly endorsed by the CIA, but murdering them shortly after they talked, that doesn't like something the CIA, or heck, any non-totalitarian regime would have endorsed. Actually, that sounds more like what the Communists would have done, anyways.


 * And just because Coldman is trying to state that he is doing it for the CIA doesn't make his group any less of a rogue unit, or him a rogue agent, mercenary unit or not. In Stargate SG1, there were members of the NID who committed various actions that were completely against regular channels yet were still claiming to be doing it for the NID, or for Earth, even. Similarly, for an example more related to Metal Gear, Volgin and his GRU unit were definitely rogue during Snake Eater, yet he also tried to make it so that, while he definitely goes against Khrushchev, he also retains his position in GRU while revolting against Khrushchev, which implies that he does seem to retain some loyalty to the organization, even if the so-called loyalty is more related to his position in GRU than to GRU itself. Weedle McHairybug 14:12, August 18, 2011 (UTC)


 * When I mentioned human operators, I meant of nuclear weapons in general, not Peace Walker itself. They would hesitate to launch a real nuke since they would be responsible for wiping out a sizable human population due to mutually assured destruction; Peace Walker would have no such qualms. If a dummy was used, there would be less hesitation on a human's part to carry out a launch, and the effectiveness of Peace Walker would not be realized if it were to do the same.


 * There's no doubt that the CIA wouldn't (publicly?) approve of certain activities conducted by mercs, but that doesn't mean they'd be unhappy if the end result was to their benefit (a perfect nuclear deterrent and dominance over Central America). It just seems that labelling them as "rogue," simply because the CIA didn't know exactly what they were up to, is a bit misleading; many organizations often grant a certain level of autonomy to some departments in order to achieve some overall objective, which is what Coldman, as Station Chief, would have been doing. --Bluerock 15:34, August 18, 2011 (UTC)
 * Okay, although that still doesn't explain why Coldman was not following through with actual retaliation so much as technical retaliation by essentially tricking Peace Walker into commencing a first-strike against Mother Base/Cuba using false data. I mean, that alone would have also proven to be inherently against retaliation, even if Peace Walker was technically following through with retaliation. Plus, there would be a LOT of problems with US relations with Central America had the tests come to full fruitition, given that the radiation from the blasts getting into the trade winds would cause an endemic of radiation poisoning, and when people find out that a member of the CIA did this, this would cause a huge amount of backlash against the United States, potentially causing the Central Americans to go for Communism, even without Zadornov launching it at Cuba instead of Mother Base/the Caribbean Sea.
 * In addition, it also seems very odd that they would wait approximately nine years to start the project, seeing how the CIA got Granin's documents shortly after Operation Snake Eater via Ocelot. Going by Ocelot's statement about a potential future weapon for America, most people would have jumped at the chance of developing it immediately, yet its implied that the Peace Walker project was started in 1973 using Granin's documents. In addition, Coldman was stated to have gotten it from one of his contacts within the CIA. "Contacts" in this case is implied to be agents or spies. I mean, if they at least stated that it was one of his bosses, I could buy it actually being a CIA project, but it didn't seem to be that. Well, not that it really matters, it just sounds odd for him to do these things while working for the CIA, that's all. Weedle McHairybug 16:14, August 18, 2011 (UTC)


 * I can agree with a lot that you say. Coldman's plan was quite idiotic: he was essentially proving that Peace Walker could be tricked with false data and could be forced to fire on a target specified beforehand, negating its entire purpose as a completely independent, thinking, unmanned weapon.
 * As for why they didn't develop Peace Walker immediately, the technology just didn't exist at the time. Remember that the ICBMG was created only four years prior and that lacked any bipedal technology (its ignorance by MPW notwithstanding). --Bluerock 18:07, August 18, 2011 (UTC)

binhogeminiRE: Uploaded Images
Dear Bluerock.

{C}The images came from the newest Shinkawa's artbook from MGS Peace Walker. ~binhogemini

Snake Eater Survival Viewer item pictures (namely cures)
Hi.

I was wondering if you could post any pics relating to the icons for the various cures in the game. Namely the cold medicine and the antidote. I'd do it myself, but the last time I posted pics of items from MGS3, it turned out that the pics were watermarked, and besides which, I can't seem to find any items there.

Weedle McHairybug 01:09, August 28, 2011 (UTC)


 * I shall look out for them. --Bluerock 10:21, August 28, 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks. Oh, and while you're searching, be careful because thanks to the current internet, there's some distasteful pics. Weedle McHairybug 10:46, August 28, 2011 (UTC)

Snake Tales
I finally managed to play it last month. The plots of all five Snake Tales were great but the background of the Big Shell and the character models of Vamp and Captain O'Brien were ridiculous. Konami was real lazy when they made Snake Tales. Vamp still has holes in his head and stomach. Captain O'Brien looks like the guy from the Big Shell chapter. The Big Shell is full of Russian soldiers in Vamp's chapter even though he's the only one who took over the Big Shell. Strut B is still covered with blood in three chapters even though no one was killed. The bridges and doors are still destroyed. Solidus' voice is heard during the Harrier fight even though he's not in the Harrier. Meryl sounds like Olga.68.37.56.163 18:36, September 1, 2011 (UTC)


 * Looks like you'll be able to play them in HD too, come November. They simply reused the same polygon models, environments, and voice clips, to reduce costs. It seems that the Snake Tales were intended more for the Raiden haters, so they could play as their hero Snake in various scenarios. --Bluerock 18:50, September 1, 2011 (UTC)


 * I actually like Raiden and Rosemary. It was funny though when Solidus said that Raiden and Rosemary were a loathsome unit, hated and feared by all and they had the combined hate of the entire universe. XD --68.37.56.163 19:13, September 1, 2011 (UTC)


 * Yes, there are plenty of in-jokes in that final Snake Tale. Is the original Substance hard to come by these days? I was lucky and got the Document of MGS2 included with the PAL edition, many years ago. --19:22, September 1, 2011 (UTC)


 * It wasn't hard for me. I found one at a local mall in Jersey City last month when I was buying LA Noire. Part of the reason I bought it was I wanted to see Gurlugon. When I heard Big Boss say that name while talking to Paramedic in Snake Eater, I was confused. I had never heard of it. Ghost Babel was hard to get. I had to buy it at Amazon but it was worth it. Too bad Christine Jenner doesn't exist in the canon universe. The plots of the Acid games sound great but changing cards seems difficult. Does the first Acid game show Snake's death? I know that the Snake in Acid 2 was a clone. --68.37.56.163 19:33, September 1, 2011 (UTC)


 * I remember the start of that Snake Tale mission, and hoping to see some interesting monster at the Big Shell, then was disappointed to find that it was just an oversized Gurlukovich soldier. I don't own VR Missions or Integral, so I wasn't even aware of Gurlugon's predecessor, Genola.


 * Acid does not show Snake's death at all, nor even hints at it. Although he is still present on Lobito Island at the end of the game, having him killed off just after the credits roll comes off as really strange. Maybe Acid 2 was another alternate reality or something.


 * --Bluerock


 * You never played VR Missions? I thought you played every Metal Gear game. I played VR Missions in October 2007. I managed to unlock the Naomi Hunter photograph session (which is seen in MGS4 flashbacks) but not Mei Ling. Trying to get the highest score in the sneaking levels is too hard for me. --68.37.56.163 13:02, September 2, 2011 (UTC)


 * I never came across VR Missions on sale back in the day so I never picked it up. To be honest, it didn't appeal to me that much because it wasn't a full MGS game with any story to it. I did manage to get the highest scores on the original 10 VR missions in MGS1, but yeah, it can be pretty hard. How are the ninja levels? Is it anything like using Raiden's HF blade in MGS2, or are they completely different? --Bluerock 14:51, September 2, 2011 (UTC)

Admin and Chat
I was told by Soul Reaper to seek you out on this matter. First off, this is a great wiki and I'm glad someone us taking the initiative to lead it. Secondly, any plans on implementing chat on this wiki? I've made a wiki myself, so I know where to activate it at. Anyways, I think this would be a good wiki to have chat on, wanted to know your thoughts on it. -- ☢Valoopy☣ 02:06, September 8, 2011 (UTC)

Sweet, I look forward to you being an admin here, would hate to see it hit by a vandal. BTW, just got killed at Bolshaya Past South. Snake+Knife>20 Guards, but 1 Guard+Grenade>Snake. D: -- ☢Valoopy☣ 00:00, September 11, 2011 (UTC)