Board Thread:Metal Gear Solid V/@comment-98.234.99.168-20150703054955/@comment-64.33.250.214-20150723152434

Bluerock wrote: I thought that Solid Snake's eyes were green in The Twin Snakes, or at least grey in all the screenshots I've seen. Can you provide any screenshots that prove otherwise? Also, do you have evidence that shows Kojima basing his design choices on those of The Twin Snakes? That really doesn't sound like something he'd feel beholden to, IMO. It would make more sense to base Big Boss's appearance on Solidus from MGS2, being the visually identical clone and all. I don't believe that Big Boss's eyes were made blue simply to imply a recessive genetic trait, rather than a design choice for aesthetic reasons. Also, the color choice should be equally credited to character designer Yoji Shinkawa, rather than just Kojima alone.

The only Japanese genes inherited by Les Enfants Terribles were from the egg donor's mitochondrial DNA, as established in MGS4. Only Big Boss's nuclear DNA (i.e. that located in his cell's nucleus) was inherited, which contains the eye colour genes. Since Big Boss is no longer of Japanese descent in canon (if he ever was), the above point about Japanese eye color inheritance is invalid.

If you wanna get technical, eye color is actually determined by many genes. If Big Boss really had blue eyes due to a single gene, then ALL his clones would have blue eyes, as no dominant version of that gene (allele) even exists in Big Boss's DNA. Therefore, trying to determine the "recessive" clone on that basis would be meaningless. The various other genes coding for eye color (whose dominant/recessive allele pair is unknown) may account for any difference in eye color between the clones, even if the extent of their influence is not as strong as the commonly known blue/brown eye gene.

LONG STORY SHORT: Considering all of the above, and all the evidence available, using eye/hair colour from these games to determine the clones' identities is a fairly weak argument, IMHO. Regardless of whether it was Solid or Liquid who was always blond (dyed brown) or always brunet (dyed blond), there'll always be a combination to fit Campbell's "completely identical" line in the MGS1 briefing. The briefing is largely static, with limited animation. Snake's polygon model during gameplay is in a completely different context, being much more dynamic. Also, as mentioned above, if either clone's hair is dyed/bleached, rather than natural color, then Cambpell's line can still be valid. Unfortunately, I can't recall specifically where I heard that Kojima made Boss's eyes blue in Snake Eater to reflect Solid's eyes in Twin Snakes. Which is why I said "I heard". It was either on these forums, or in one of the many Youtube videos discussing the franchise. Those are the two main sources I get my MGS info from. I was hoping someone else knew the source or could confirm whether or not this was true. The source of this info specifically mentioned Volgin's comments on Boss's blue eyes, in correlation with Solid's appearance in Twin Snakes prior to Snake Eater's release. It may also have involved the original Japanese translation of Snake Eater, and how the dialogue in Boss's torture scene was presented there.

Speaking of sources, I'd like to know where the editor of Solid's Wikia entry got the info that Solid had blue eyes. His page states that his eyes are "blue, later blue gray". Did the editor have access to a manual or official guide which confirmed this? If not, then the only thing I can assume is that they were going off his appearances in Twin Snakes and MGS4.

Unless I'm color blind (which according to color vision tests I'm not), Solid's eyes appear icy blue here: http://assets1.ignimgs.com/thumbs/userUploaded/2014/10/31/MetalGear_THUMB-1414797368613.jpg

^That's one of the only clear close-up shots of Solid I could find from the game.

Here, in these images from MGS2, Solid appears to have green eyes:

http://img05.deviantart.net/062d/i/2007/043/8/c/bg__solid_snake_by_aribasultan.jpg

https://yt3.ggpht.com/-FGod4vMmPtQ/AAAAAAAAAAI/AAAAAAAAAAA/6MNUrVTjL6c/s900-c-k-no/photo.jpg

http://lh3.ggpht.com/-F7OewGsNZwI/T0k1FbBURtI/AAAAAAAAAF0/OUoGSQRCKVA/iroquois%252520pliskin.jpg

http://i.ytimg.com/vi/pEXuztysz4A/maxresdefault.jpg

http://37.media.tumblr.com/517be8d85182a1601b2b5377340a0389/tumblr_mxnw4jJmPG1qzqt8do1_250.gif

Again, what "I heard" and don't know if Kojima stated this, is Solid and Naked were meant to represent each other more thematically than the other Snakes. Specifically, this was claimed to be the reason (or excuse) why both Solid and Naked had the same voice actors. One thing you can't clone is a voice, as that is something learned from environment.

Whether or not Kojima made Naked's eyes to match Solid, I don't know for a fact. He certainily didn't have to change his eyes blue from his original brown color in the NES games. It could be as you said, that he wanted to match Solidus, but he didn't have to be beholden to that either. Shinkawa may have created the look, but it's Kojima who gave the final say. There are plenty of original character art concepts that didn't get approval for the games. Pliskin's blonde concept art for MGS2 actually made it past concept and into game testing (according to Solid's Wikia page), but was rejected because play testers didn't like it.

Didn't realize I was dealing with a science major. Or did you research about genes in response to my comments? Just going by offhand knowledge, this gene business is confusing to me. Contrary to what MGS claims, I don't think there realistically are genes correlating to being a soldier, which can be isolated to create super soldier genes. Genes may be able to help determine physical and mental traits, but becoming an expert at CQC is largely down to experience and environmental factors.

So Kojima retconned the official biography which said Big Boss was part Japanese? I honestly did not know that. I know that Snake Eater changed his age and him serving in WWII. Did any of the games change that he was born in Hawaii, and specifically suggest that he didn't have Japanese ancestry? If you could provide a source that would be helpful. Otherwise, other details from the official biography might still remain canon.

I'm no genetic expert, but this is what I found from looking up blue eye genes:

"Davenport and Davenport (1907) were the first to suggest that blue eye color was caused by a recessive allele. They claimed that whenever both parents had blue eyes, all of the children have blue eyes, but their data actually included two hazel-eyed offspring of blue-eyed parents. The authors said "we suspect [these] to be of a blue type," whatever that means.

Hurst (1908) divided eyes into just two types, "simplex" (blues and some grays, with no pigment on the outer surface of the iris) and "duplex" (all other colors). He found the following results: You have to use what the games present you to base an argument. If the hair/eye color thing is weak, then blame the inconsistencies and retcons for that. If what Colonel Campbell says is too vague for you, then blame the script or translation. He literally only said that the twins don't match in skin tone. That's what we the audience were originally left to go by. Then Solid asked for scissors and stated he was going to clean up before the briefing cut off. So while the briefing may not prove or disprove anything, it certainly leaves room for speculation. Especially when you take into account the Pliskin concept art that supposedly made it all the way to testing.

I see your point on the polygon model, but I highly doubt that Snake's hair couldn't be darkened in the briefing video to make it look less blonde. There's no red light I'm aware of that can turn brown hair to such a light shade. Going back to Campbell's dialogue, if his comments about skin tone can apply to hair, why wouldn't he just mention the hair? That'd seem like the most immediate difference to bring up in the case of twins. Again, you can always blame script, but keep in mind how the briefing abruptly ends as Solid mentions he's changing his appearance so as not to be confused for Liquid.